BEST I FACED: MARVELOUS MARVIN HAGLER

Not in a million years. Ray was a magnificent fighter, but he was at his best at welter where he contends for top 5 all-time in my book.

Middleweight is Hagler's kingdom.

 

Oh Mark. Leonard beat Hagler where as Duran was always behind on any sort of decent scorecard.

 

Leonard did not beat Hagler.
Shoe shinning don't count, this ain't the amateurs.
Hagler landed more proper punches.

 

Well hitting or kicking the shins is most certainly a no no.

 

Hagler was robbed

 

you can tell that most of what Leonard threw was caught on Hagler's gloves or forearms yet some people are still insisting that Leonard won?

Must be pretty big fans of Leonard

 

you're bitter that Norris exposed him as overrated

you're also biter that Camacho knocked him out since now you cant make the claim "nobody EVER knockd Ray out!"

you're also bitter that Ray didnt have the guts to accept a fight with Hagler in his prime

We'd all have love to have seen it

we'd also love to see a defense with Nunn instead of Don lalonde

See? he really wasnt as great as you imagine

 

No Ray didn’t hit Hags, Marv just self - lumped up during the course of the fight - or was it from the combo Marv landed on his own head before opening bell - with more venom than he showed in the actual fight?

When Leonard wasn’t moving, Hagler wasn’t walking through Leonard or the punches Ray was slinging and landing. Whatever Hagler thought of Leonard’s viability, the onus was on Marv to put his best foot forward in any circumstance - forget the ring size, gloves etc. -

IF Marv came out as a southpaw - as he should’ve - and went right after Leonard instead of trying to box - as he should’ve - he still might’ve beaten Ray - but he didn’t - so it’s all on Hags. Clearly, frustrations that should lie appropriately with Hags are being projected, misguidedly, onto Leonard.

I’ve never read anyone factor in an aged, detrimentally inactive and an obviously shot Leonard’s losses to Norris and Camacho as legit considerations for a prime Leonard. It’s pretty much the dumbest thing I’ve ever read on this forum -

But then I’ve also never read Leonard referred to as a coward either - after years of inactivity, Ray moved UP - Marvin never did - I mean, if you’re applying the SAME brush - and Marv didn’t fight through to the ages Ray did when Ray lost -

I guess the usual suspects would also calculate Ali (v Liston) and Robinson (v Maxim) to be cowards also because they didn’t stand still like brainless pugs and allow themselves to be hit unnecessarily.

Or is it just an obvious and irrational vendetta against SRL that is driving such biased treatment?

 

Circumstances of this fight usually come up, in a somewhat educated discussion at least, when Hagler is compared to Leonard in h2h or in theoretical prime versus prime.

Fact is, inactivity faking Leonard with his decked stacked (due to Hagler's bitterness and desire to be the clear A-side during promotion; guilty as found) and three or four free rounds only managed to take Hagler to a controversial split-decision that is considered by large amount of experts (even in panels called to discuss on the matter) as being unfair towards Marvin. All that matters when you have people claim the fight was somehow representative of how prime versus prime would go.

Did the decision was an outright robbery? No, except for the one card straight out of Canelo-Golovkin I. There were far worse and less justifiable verdicts.

That being said, Leonard run from a rematch faster than Ali run from another Foreman fight and rightly so. Nobody can expect people to believe Leonard would convincingly beat prime Hagler after what happened.

 

I don’t see the result as indicative of a prime v prime scenario at all. It simply was what is was as at the time and at the respective stages of each man’s career. As to Ray “faking”, I find that a strange conclusion - and one that is mooted anyway since Marvin should’ve fought to his best potential anyway - without reserve.

 

Interesting timeline of the fight:

Ray issues his challenge on May 1, 1986 — and not just a ‘calls Hagler out’ kind of challenge: he had his attorney/chief negotiator Mike Trainer call the Petronellis and say let’s make this fight.’

In July, Hagler holds a press conference saying he’s thinking about retiring but isn’t ruling out a fight with Leonard.

In mid-August, Hagler sends word through a Top Rank promotional spokesman that he will fight Leonard and lays out all his demands: which are that Top Rank promotes the fight (he has, since Ray’s challenge, signed an exclusive agreement with Arum to be the promoter) and that he get $10M plus a 50% percentage of everything over $20M generated by the fight.

By September of that year, there’s still no agreement. Marvin has gone underground and isn’t responding at all.

They end up fighting in April the next year (Marvin had originally given March as the date).

Apparently Ray started training in May after issuing the challenge. He’s proceeding as if the fight will happen. Which, according to some distractors, is cheating. I guess he’s supposed to lay on the beach sipping Mai Tais until Marvin grants his consent to begin training.

Marvin is in seclusion but it’s not clear if he’s training or not — the Petronellis keep saying they haven’t heard from him but that could be a smokescreen.

So it took almost one year from the approach saying ‘let’s do this’ to Marvin stepping in the ring, and the delay is all on him. If he’s slipping, seems like putting it off for a year isn’t to his advantage. And he’s also signed a contract to fight without Leonard’s side being a party to it, his financial demands are laid out in ink in that contract and thus there is nothing left to negotiate but Ray’s purse and the incidental things like glove and ring size, length of fight, etc.

Each side of the fight got what it wanted.

https://vault.si.com/vault/1986/09/...ng-rusty-to-challenge-marvelous-marvin-hagler