BEST I FACED: SUGAR RAY LEONARD

The Ali that beat Spinks in the rematch loses a wide decision to Holmes. The Ali of the Holmes fight was drained by taking Thyrolar for a thyroid condition he didn't have. Without getting into when he did or didn't have Parkinson's Syndrome it's not a stretch to argue there was more at work in his declining performance than just simple aging.

 

Yes the badness of the performance (not the outcome) vs. Holmes was understood after the fact to have been at least in large part because of the use of the thyroid medicine. The Ali who fought Berbick was better than the Ali who fought Holmes (but diminished from either version that fought Spinks, especially the second one).

So indeed something more than age was at work in the Holmes fight. That’s not in dispute.

We see shot fighters all the time. And they often diminish fairly quickly (from one fight to the next you may see a guy fight hard but just not have it and then next time out get sparked out by a nobody). I think we can say Mike Tyson diminished pretty badly too.

If you’re suggesting that it was obvious he had Parkinson’s, tell me who today has Parkinson’s who hasn’t been diagnosed yet.

 

I’ll take this as your admission that you’re completely wrong and that it was not known that Ali had Parkinson’s until some years after he stopped boxing.

 

Not specifically Parkinsons. It could be Chronic traumatic encephalopath, Alzheimer's Disease, or the good old Dementia Pugilistica, all of which have been linked to repeated concussions or other traumatic blows to the head. A neurologist and sometimes even a layman can see the neurological deficits.

 

you cant even make a proper analogy

Leonard was in no way in the same sad condition as Ali prior to the Holmes fight. People were pleading with him not to take the fight and had been reams of punishment on the ropes year after year after year

Could you say the same for Leonard? If so, in which fights was he taking extended punishment? The way you make it sound, he was Gatti getting busted up in every big fight and here, we don't see any of that. Moreover, in his previous fight with Duran, he wasnt even touched!

so where do you come off with these Ali - Berbick comparisons???

Explain yourself

 

Come off it. Stop being a diva.

 

Well if I WERE a fan, I would never admit to it.

There wasnt enough there to make a real career and his loss to Norris really exposed his inability to handle the younger fighters.

That's how I see it.

That one performance solidifies my belief that Ray Leonard would have fared poorly in a fight with peak Hagler, Michael Nunn and the like, and his poor showing in the Norris fight is the evidence

I'm a much bigger fan of people like Floyd Jr because of his proven track record of success. He didnt just luck out in a couple of big fights

 

I have a better idea, explain why you used Berbick v. Ali and on top of that, say you are "stating facts obviously"

You really have no clue as to what you are saying

 

If you can’t pick up on a very simple joke assess your situation because honestly you sound like just about the biggest sook.

 

This is one of the more ridiculous things I've read here.

Since 2004.

 

Yeah the thing we have to remember is that he beat Benitez, Duran, Hearns and Hagler and holds a winning record against all four of them.

Hearns was well ahead on points deep into their 15 rounder and if he had a bit better chin and stamina (perhaps even just experience, how to clinch etc) he would have walked away with the win. It looked grim for Leonard. The Hagler fight was close at worst and he was never behind against Benitez or in any Duran bout excepting the first. I dare say making Duran actually quit in the second match took away a lot of the (Duran's) gloss of his performance in the first bout. I think that's fair.

Hearns also busted him up early and had him really hurt late in their rematch. He never ever found a way to gain a lead against Hearns and that is probably the reason he rates Hearns as the best he faced.

 

Gatti was a face first punching bag and had poor footwork but the way Journeyman92 makes it sound, Leonard was a punching bag for Hagler, lalonde, Hearns, & Duran for his late 80s comeback fights.