Best in heavyweight history per category

Right hand- Lewis, Foreman, Shavers

Left hand/hook- Frazier, Tyson, Tua

Jab- Holmes, Thomas, Ali

Uppercut- Tyson, Moorer, Joshua

Body puncher- Frazier, Cooney, Marciano

Combinations- Ali, Holyfield, Jones Jr

Hand speed- Patterson, Tyson, Ali

Foot speed- Ali, Hide, Jones Jr.

Chin- McCall, Holyfield, Vitali

Clincher/grabber- Ali, Holmes, Wlad

Thumber- Holmes, Lewis, Ali

Headbutter- Holyfield, Tyson, Golota

Low blows- Golota, Dempsey, Tyson

 

I don't agree with Holyfield being in the mix for top ring generalship ahead of Jack Johnson.

 

Why not? At least with Holyfield, you could have seen how good or bad he was by seeing him in action either live in person or on crystal clear tape. With Johnson all you see on 100+years black and white film is mainly crazy herky jerky movements that make both fighters look like they are drunk. Ain’t his fault, it’s just the bad quality of the old film and he may well have the smoothest, slickest boxer ever but unless you were there at the time, then you are just going on hearsay and what you have read what others have written about him and not what you could see and make your own mind up for yourself, on film. Anyone who says you can see what great ring generalship Johnson has based just on what available old film there is on him is just lying.

 

Put Michael Dokes for hand speed. He may have been faster than Tyson, prime vs prime.

 

What did Shavers achieve to rank his right hand being put alongside Lewis?

And Thomas over Wlad for jabs?

 

Second career Foreman was probably the best thinker ever.

 

Disagree.

 

He was able to set Michael Moorer into a trap despite his terribly eroding skills.

 

That's a guy setting traps. That does not make him the best thinker ever. A better thinker figures out & solves the defense of a Morrison. What was so tough to solve about Alex Stewart? Or Savarese? Grimsley? Briggs? Schulz? Other guys had minimal problems utilizing their offense against those guys.

Those defenses and styles are not all that difficult & I sure don't see a thinker having 1 iota of a problem with that group.

 

At the end of the day Foreman was ancient. These guys were so much younger and at the end of the day he only brought so much to the table. What other heavyweights would be as competitive as he was at that age?

I do agree Mark 2 wasn't the best thinker in heavyweight history. He was pretty good tho, he brought forward quite an effective and workable style considering the absurdity of just how much he had against him.

 

Sure good. Better than average, but not elite. He was never a Holmes kind of guy in the thinking department. He didn't listen all that well to his own corner even. And I sure don't think he was a fast thinker.

I'm not so sure it was a trap w/ Moorer anyway. Anymore than Briggs taking out Liakovich late---it was an opening that was there and he finally pulled the trigger. Perhaps he had to wear down MM a little, but there were other bouts of his that George did not display a ton of ring smarts. If you subtract his punching power from the equation, George's ring smarts are not much to fall back on.

 

Best right hand: (tied) Joe Luis/Foreman

Best left hook: Frazier

Best jab: Holmes

Best uppercut: Tyson

Best combination puncher: Louis

Best counter puncher: Moore

Best body puncher: Marciano

Best endurance: Marciano

Fastest hands: Ali

Fastest feet: Ali

Best chin: Chuvalo/Marciano/Ali

Best overall durability (head and body shots): Ali

Best ring generalship: not sure