Best Lampley moment? "Bang, Bang" or "Written by Allah"

Lampley,i understand some of your post.
However,its not just 'religion' per se that creates a lot of the human tragedy,its human dogma.
Human dogma can be religious or athiestic,proof from history is the crusades,the inquisition and the current middle east. BUT,we also had stalinism,communsim and nazism,pretty much anti religious,which caused untold misery. The common denominator is DOGMA,that gives one group the right to take away the freedom of another in the name of some concept,belief,prejudice or entitlement.
I love liberal democracy,and to me,freedom is the highest value i aspire to.
But,you cannot impose 'freedom' by war (an oxymoron if ever there was one.) ,for a reason why not witness the current debacle in iraq.

 

Good post. My beef with religion is that it codifies this dogma to such an extent that it gets passed down from generation to generation with only a limited capacity to modernize.

Nazism did not have that luxury, and at least despotic rulers and their eras of ruin are more transient. The people battling in the Middle East are eternally entrenched. That situation will not resolve until they engage in total war.

 

Lampley just using the same logic.
If You win because of God...
You lose because of him too...

All these athletes using God as a reason why they win...
Pretty sure God would promote a filthy guy like Mayweather.

Oh, and pretty sure God (if he does exist...) would help a pro fighter...but let millions of innocent people die from war, health decease or natural disaster.

 

"Do you think Islamic rule has been healthy for the Middle East? Do you think overly Christian influence — such as our holy war in Iraq — has been good for the USA"

You say Islamic rule, well Saudi Arabia is really the only Middle Eastern counrty that claims to follow Islam as their goverment. Even though their government doesn't always do everything according to our religion. Iraq had a repubic that they followed, which didn't have a whole lot to do with Islam. A lot of Middle Eastern countries don't follow our religion completely. But, you see, we are getting into politics now, not religion. People just think that because Muslims live in these countries and they have a Muslim president that they are practicing Islam. That's not always the case. For instance, Saddam Hussein made a lot of statements that are MAJORLY against our beliefs.

Another thing, you say holy war. If I remember correctly, it was the Christian, George Bush who invaded that nation. And it had nothing to do with religion. It had nothing to do with W.M.D.s neither, but that's another story. If someone invaded our country today, believe me, we would be fighting to get them out and not for Bush, Obama or any politician. We would fight for our own survival and self esteem. Of course this war has been terrible for the U.S. But, who forced Bush to start this war with a country that was and still is harmless to ours. Blame Bush.

"Islam is quite clear on the role of women"

Oh yeah and what role is that? You are completely wrong. Women are to be respected in our religion. What rights is it that you think women don't have. Now, in some Middle Eastern countries women don't have all the rights that our religion permits them, but that is country laws, not religious. You have to read about the RELIGION not these countries. Women have the right to work, drive, be educated, etc., just like us men. In our religion, men and women are to stay separated. We want our children, both male and female to be chaste. We want them to get married and have strong family values. Do you think I would just give my daughter to some guy to be a slave or to be abused? Of course not. We don't believe in letting our children out to get STD's and get pregnant at the age of 14. We have strong values, but again, I am not imposing this on you. I just want you to understand.


"I do think Lampley shouldn't have mentioned Allah in that context"

Exactly. That is all I am saying about the Lampley thing. I love Jim Lampley. He and Merchant are my favorites. My night of HBO boxing isn't complete without at least Lampley, since Merchant is kind of being phased out. I think that Lampley simply spoke without thinking, due to Hamed's arrogant speaking. Arrogance is another thing that is a big no no in our religion. People make mistakes and Jim is no different.

"but when mainstream condemns a cartoon and backs that condemnation with threats of violence"

This is a topic that I have addressed on another thread a while back. I think people don't fully understand the cartoon thing. The Prophet Muhammad (saws) didn't allow people to draw his picture. He was only a man. We don't worship him. His appearance was not what was important. It was the message that Allah sent him with. We aren't allowed to draw pictures of living things. So a lot of people were upset at this. If someone drew up a cartoon on another religion the people of that religion would be upset too. Now, some people may have made threats of violence, but remember, the people of the religion aren't perfect. I don't blame Christians for Timothy McVea or Adolf Hitler. You know what I mean?

In conclusion, I do respect your beliefs. I don't believe them just like you don't believe mine, but this world is a big place. There is room for all of us.
I just hope that you don't have a preconcieved notion every time you see a Muslim. We are not your enemies. I have to go for now, but I will check out what you have to say in a little bit. I think we have come a long way here. Have a good one. :good

 

Well,i wil try to give you some hope lampley.
I have a lot of contact with muslims (in fact all of my life ive been around muslims.) and a lot of them are 'secular' in their everday affairs and only religious privately. (like a lot of nominal christians.)
They would sooner go on 'jihad' than throw themselves of a cliff.
I would identify it as a kind of cultural 'pride' just like some jews (who might even say they are athiest.) yet still maintain their 'jewishness' and their customs.
The guys in the west i worry about are only a small minority of 'brainwashed' guys,and the brainwashers.
As for the middle east,its the poverty and the lack of freedoms that breeds the violence and extremists,not neccessarily the religion.
When those countries have a better standard of living and some kind of decent governments,the extremists will be an even smaller minority than they already are.
I dont think its all doom and gloom,and doesnt have to end in war.
Oh,and america needs to be much more clever and sensitive about its overseas and energy policies. Some of the policies of bush really 'created' more terrorism,obama seems to be a breath of fresh air in that regard.

 

you do realise, you wasted more than a second typing that to him.

 

Wrong!

Middle East countries under Sharia Law:

Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq (prior to 2003), Pakistan ( some consider it part of the mid East)

in North Africa:

Nigiria, Sudan, and Egypt

 

No, not wrong! Just because a country makes that claim doesn't mean they follow it. Do you even know anything about the Sharia? Iran is over 90% Shia, so there view of Islam differs quite a lot from ours.

I guess you just attempted to pull up some little statistics from what, Wikipedia? Good job there guy. You actually believe that Iraq followed the Sharia before 2003? Saddam Hussein was a guy who claimed to be the "leader of all Muslims". Saddam also claimed to be a decendant of the Prophet(saws). His regime allowed torture, which is also against the Sharia. Saddam had pictures of himself all over the counrty, which since you know so much about the Sharia, you probably already know, that it is not lawful. Their regime was about Pan-Arabism, meaning pro-Arab. We as Muslims know that Arabs are not superior, as there is NO SUPERIOR RACE!!! That regime sided with non-Muslim Arabs over Muslim Kurds. I'm sorry guy, but it takes longer than 3 minutes to learn about these issues. If you are going to correct someone, than get your facts straight.

Saudi Arabia is the closest country to following to Sharia. A lot of people that I know lived there. Now, Pakistan is probably pretty close too. Even though, like you said, it isn't really part of the Middle East. Anyway, have a nice day.

 

If I could make a suggestion to all....
Can we please turn this back into a boxing forum and not a religious forum. Yes, I and many others here are Muslim. We aren't attempting to impose our religion on anyone. I am a life-long boxing fan just like a lot of you. I am an American who grew up eating chicken and collard greens just like a lot of other people. And that isn't an insult to any of my Muslim brothers from over seas. But, this topic has gotten out of hand. I have spent two days trying to imform people that we just want the same respect that is expected from us. I respect all of you people's beliefs. I don't have to believe what you believe and vice versa. Let's just be boxing fans in here. The TS should think before starting a thread like this, just like Naseem Hamed should think before making a big announcement before his fight with Barrera. Again, two wrongs don't make a right. There is nothing wrong with declaring what you believe, but before a boxing match in front of thousands of people who don't believe what you believe? I don't know what Hamed was trying to accomplish. Anyway boxing fans, let's please stop talking about religion. Have a wonderful day to all.

 

I disagree with this. Yes, it was cowboys Bush and Chaney who dishonestly put the USA into the spot we're in there, but I don't agree that their motives weren't in some way religious.

If America were neutral, then why the unerring support for Israel? Our involvement in their favor certainly has assisted the hatred of us there, although I don't buy that those Islamic nations would like America regardless.

If I were a citizen of an Islamic nation, you absolutely would impose these values onto me. Participating in this "chastity" is not optional. Hence, the need for separation between church and state.

And separate but equal doesn't work. Check out this paragraph and tell me you think it is enlightened:

"By: Prof. Q.M.M. Kamoonpuri
Islam precisely prescribes gender roles for almost all aspects of one's behavior and life. In a true Islamic society, gender roles are fixed according to the psychological and physiological aspects of being male or female.
In the Islamic perspective, gender roles are what indicate other and one too, one's maleness and femaleness. From this viewpoint, both husband and wife have well defined sets of expectations and norms, which clearly direct them to do what is permissible, and usual behavior of that special sex."

And this is not an Islamic hate site. [url]http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=4312[/url]

If you try to date a non-religious person's daughter and explain to the father that she needs to be kept separate and conform to her pre-determined biological role, you'd best duck. This **** doesn't belong in the 21st century.

Respectfully, this is bunk. McVea is a nutjob, but apparently there are far more nutjobs in certain Islamic areas. This is an unfortunately common occurrence. Even if someone offends your religious beliefs, you don't get to resort to violence.

________
The violence follows attacks on Danish embassies in Syria and Lebanon over the weekend. The cartoons were first published in a Danish newspaper.
Tensions continue to escalate around the world:

Norway demands compensation from Syria after its embassy in Damascus was set on fire on Saturday

This content is protected

Some 200 protesters took to the streets in the Afghan capital Kabul



The Turkish and Spanish prime ministers make a joint plea for respect and calm in an article in the International Herald Tribune
In Indonesia, protesters target the Danish and US consulates in Surabaya, the country's second largest city. Protests are also held in the capital, Jakarta
Riot police in the Indian capital, Delhi, fire tear gas and water cannons to disperse hundreds of student protesters
Shops and businesses across Indian-administered Kashmir close after a general strike is called in protest at the drawings
In Thailand, protesters shout "God is great" and stamp on Denmark's flag outside the country's embassy in Bangkok, the Associated Press news agency reports
There are protests again outside the European Union offices in Gaza, following demonstrations there last week.

____________

I appreciate your tone, once again. That said, I need to make two points:

1) You seem to want to frame me as anti-Islam alone. I am anti-religion as a whole, and Islam is but one component of that. In fact, I tend to side with Muslims in Gaza struggling against Israel.

2) I don't hold grudges against individual Christians, Jews or Muslims because I know there are lots of good, solid people included in those groups. It's the collective mentality and political power I abhor.

Peace.

 

Good idea. I'd already made my previous post before reading this, but I'll vacate this thread now.

 

What part of "stereotyping is hysterical" is getting lost in translation? :huh

 

I've never been to prision.

 

Agreed.:good

 

In the name of Allah(subahanwatallah)..can we end this discussion.