Best Left Hooks ?

Ali was on his feet at the count of 4.

 

Ezzard Charles had a decent left hook

 

That was just a short sweet reply to Flash so as to alert that we were talking Sonny Banks and to agree that Cooper had Ali badly hurt at any rate - Flash also made good points re Ali holding back and working to prediction.

BUT, my cursory read of Flashes post did miss the comment that Dundee bought time - the rd was only delayed for a scant 4-6 secs - I was discussing all this with someone in a recent thread

Salts were legal in the US but not Britain (under the broader category of any drugs) since about 1950 though there is suggestion they were still being used here and there with guilty parties only copping a warning and told to stop.

An interesting angle is that the salts might’ve been banned more to protect the fighter being administered same - so as not to send back out otherwise unfit and therefore more vulnerable fighters who were only momentarily perked up by the salts.

The greatest perpetrators of the myth were Cooper himself and Dundee. Now Cooper didn’t appear to have any hard feels bout the fight, someone even claimed that Cooper gave a pass on the use of salts.

IMO, it just amounted to a GREAT yarn as far as Henry was concerned - not wilful deceit to raise his own stocks - I think he kept tacking time on over the years - last count per Cooper was 4 mins between rds. LOL!

In Dundees case it was pure self promotion as a savvy cornerman, even admitting to widening an existing tear with his finger - so the self promotion must’ve been worth a lot to admit to such an impropriety.

To rd 11, FOTC. In equal sampling of time after the single punch, I would say Cooper had Ali that much more hurt but no time to follow up. Ali’s rising off his stool shortly thereafter and all the stops pulled out to allow Ali to get back in shape speak for themselves.

Of course Ali held his feet, all be shakily, and had to cop some more bombs from Joe for the remainder of the round. All in all, more dramatic to see Ali skittering around like that - seemed to have his head but clearly not his legs.

Though buzzed or even semi conscious, Ali’s matured ability to stay upright was unreal, probably being hurt more times than we realise without closer scrutiny.

Check out rd 10 in THE THRILLA. Frazier is thumping a covered up Ali on the ropes. One particular left hook gets through on the chin (similar to rd 11, FOTC but without Ali’s legs clearly buckling) and Ali’s body slumps a bit though he’s still upright, hands and arms held tightly over face and part of his body.

Frazier continues teeing off and Ali isn’t moving or throwing back. It was like a micro KO - after a certain and more than concerning period Ali seems to “wake up” and start throwing back with meaningful shots. Commentators didn’t say a thing - so used to seeing Ali do same so often - it was taken for granted.

 

Yes, damn you YouTube. I remember reading a number of old boxing mags in which Willard was described as knocking out Johnson with a right uppercut….Willard’s so called killer punch (see Bull Young) - journalistic licence or flat out wrong, all the same, then the films of the fight resurfaced in the 1960s - strange looking uppercut that was!

 

Magic number for Ali, he rose at 4 v Frazier also IIRC.

Attribute that in part to instinct, a clearer head might more wisely allow for more time on the deck to recover.

When Ali arose against Cooper, he didn’t know if he was Arthur or Martha, and reflexively rising off his stool shortly after the rest period began vindicates that perception.

 

Probably true when he got nailed in the FOTC. But the reason I'd lean too the Cooper shot is because he got caught clowning and relatively fresh.
That shot in the FOTC 11th rd came after what was already a grueling dog fight.
I'm sure Ali was expecting more pain and dead serious by the 11th rd of FOTC.
That Cooper hook was a bolt of lightning from the sky and completely unexpected for Ali .
Especially when he was trying to carry Cooper to the rd he predicted he would stop him.
Nothing hurts worse when one is clowning and get caught with a shot completely unexpected.
I can give testament to that.