Best of the this Era???- ESPN

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by PacDbest, Jul 15, 2008.


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  1. PacDbest

    PacDbest Boxing Addict Full Member

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    http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/columns/story?columnist=raskin_eric&id=3485164


    Calzaghe-Jones and an era in judgment




    When future civilizations look back upon boxing in the 1990s and 2000s, it's a near certainty that this will be recalled as the Oscar De La Hoya Era. "The Golden Boy" has been the defining fighter of his generation.
    But with five losses accumulated and little (if any) time spent atop the pound-for-pound lists, De La Hoya has not been the best fighter of his generation.
    The question of who has been the premier pugilist of the past 15 years is very much up for debate. There are probably 10 different fighters for whom you can make a case.
    And two of them just signed to fight each other at Madison Square Garden on Sept. 20.
    Among the many subplots fueling interest in Joe Calzaghe vs. Roy Jones, perhaps the most compelling is how the outcome of the fight could affect the debate over who has ruled the ring for the past 15 years.
    If defending light heavyweight champion Calzaghe wins, as he's generally expected to, he will have extended his record to 46-0 while defeating two fighters in the best-of-the-era debate, Bernard Hopkins and Jones, back-to-back.
    The obvious counterpoint: Hopkins was 43 when they fought and Jones will be four months shy of 40, so the name value of the victories would far exceed the actual merit.
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    If Jones pulls off the upset, it would undo some of the damage done by his losses to Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson. It would mark Jones' first win over a championship-caliber opponent (no, an undersized, comeback-attempting Felix Trinidad doesn't count) since his reflexes began to dull, and would prove that he can compensate for his shortcomings and positively respond to adversity the way most of boxing's great champions have.
    And don't forget -- Jones ruled the pound-for-pound list for the bulk of a decade, from 1994 to 2004. At his best, he was the closest thing to unbeatable that we have seen in recent years.
    The underlying question, however, is whether he would have looked so unbeatable against tougher opposition.
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    The matter of wasting prime years fighting fringe contenders is one that haunts Calzaghe as well.
    Since 2006, the Welshman has faced the ultimate challenges and risen to them, becoming undisputed super middleweight champ by whipping Jeff Lacy and taming Mikkel Kessler, then rising to light heavyweight to knock off the division's best in Hopkins.
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    For nearly the whole decade before that, however, Calzaghe was content to defend his alphabet belt against Bum Of The Month Club types (though Calzaghe's un-Joe-Louis-like schedule made it more of a "Bum Every Six Months Club").
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    Roach has his inherent biases in favor of Pacquiao and Hopkins, so he's reluctant to issue his own ranking -- especially at this juncture.
    "I don't think Bernard has fought for the last time, there's a good chance he'll fight again," Roach revealed. "And that's what makes it tough to judge all of these guys -- a lot of them aren't done yet. You can't really decide who was the best of the era until they're retired and everything is said and done."
    Whenever that time comes, however, the events of Sept. 20, 2008, are sure to affect the positioning.
    If you like fighters with perfect records whose careers ended on a series of high notes, then maybe Calzaghe is king.
    If you like unparalleled athletic gifts and perhaps a late-career, poor man's Ali-over-Foreman triumph to provide an exclamation point, then maybe it is Roy who has reigned supreme.
    Either way, Calzaghe vs. Jones isn't likely to settle the debate.
    But it should at least narrow the field of candidates by one.
     
  2. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Nice try PacDBest.
     
  3. Imperial1

    Imperial1 VIP Member Full Member

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    This is an old ass article ..I wonder what Roach thought about Jones manhandeling of Toney way back when ?
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Very interesting article, thank you.

    I have Whitaker ahead of Roy Jones at this time but if Jones pulls of the miracle, he will leapfrog the Sweet Pea.

    Calzaghe is not a part of this argument, in my opinion.
     
  5. Imperial1

    Imperial1 VIP Member Full Member

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    I can't see what Pea has done to be over Jones especially in the early 90's ..
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Depends what you like, I do have it very close (#22 and #20). But to begin with - Whitaker sought out and fought the very best available whilst Jones took the softer option.
     
  7. PacDbest

    PacDbest Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Bernstein said it best. Pacquiao & Lewis are the two who fought the best. You can argue as much as you want but no denying what Pac has done. Pac has more to go and will be clearly ahead of Lewis once he beat Hatton. I have claimed it in the Past and now Boxing writers are acknowledging it now. If Pac is the best in the era where RJJ, PBF, DLH, Calzghe & Lewis reign, Then I'm not that far off in my Claim that Pac is already a Top 10 ATG.
     
  8. PacDbest

    PacDbest Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This is new. Just came of ESPN. Check the link!!!
     
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    **** off you idiot.
     
  10. PacDbest

    PacDbest Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Whitaker is not part of the equation. He belongs to the 80-90s era.
     
  11. PacDbest

    PacDbest Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Tell that to Bernstein!!! He rated Pac over your Favorites.
     
  12. The Italarican

    The Italarican Pretty Good Poster Full Member

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    The last sentence is bull**** because unsuccessful fights past a fighter's prime don't generally get heavy consideration when evaluating their greatness. Bernstein is exactly right that Calzaghe won't get heavy praise for beating a past-it Jones. At the same time, even if Roy looks absolutely pathetic in the fight, people will attribute it to him being almost 40 and not hold it against him later on.

    I only said unsuccessful fights past a fighter's prime don't alter their legacy too much because successes past prime count a lot. That's why Roy has a lot to gain out of this fight. Just look at 2 well past-it heavyweights. Holyfield's legacy won't be significantly altered by losing at about 45 to Ibragimov, while Foreman's legacy was raised by winning the title at that age.
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    If Bernstein has Manny Pacquiao as a top 10 all time at this point: **** off Bernstein.
     
  14. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Not taking into account second tier wins, here's a comparison of their resumes.

    Jones: Hopkins, Toney, Hill, Tarver, Ruiz, Griffin, etc.

    Whitaker: Chavez, McGirt X2, Vasquez, Nelson, Ramirez X2, arguably De La Hoya, etc

    When taking into account second tier wins it gets no closer, and based on the above, Whitaker has the edge in resume.

    Jones won titles in 4 weight classes, as did Pea. Jones's HW win over Ruiz was more prestigious, but in reality was not as good a win as Pea's win over Vasquez. Both were P4P greats and dominant fighters in their day, and both beat the #1 P4P. Jones dominated in 3 weight classes, Pea in just two, though he was more dominant at LW than Jones at any weight.

    It's a close call between the two, but I'd say Pea has a pretty clear edge.
     
  15. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    Yes, Pac still and never will be the greatest of the era, too bad, ******* pieces of ****.:lol:
     
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