Best old boxer ever?

But will Hopkins still be looking as good as Moore was when he's forty five?

 

I didn't rate him. I don't watch modern boxing lately, although it was good down the pub last night. I've seen Wright's fights however and think he's - you guessed it - overrated. Not an all-time great.

 

I apologize for the anality of this post, but it's Sunday, and I have time to burn, so here goes.

The Ole Mongoose blazed a trail others have followed since. Over the final 15 years and 90 matches of his career, he went:

82W(56 kayos)-5L-3D.

If his birthday was indeed December 13, 1916, then he didn't turn 40 until after his loss to Floyd Patterson. His record after he turned 40 would then be:

26W(16 kayos)-2L-2D

-with his only losses coming against Giulio Rinaldi (a ten round decision loss in Rinaldi's Italy which was avenged by Archie in his final LH Title defense, a 15 round points blowout at MSG), and in his penultimate bout against Muhammad Ali.

If Archie was born in December 1913, then his record after he turned 40 would be:

43W(28 kayos)-4L-2D.

His additional two losses would be to Marciano and Patterson. One of the two draws Moore had was against Howard King, an opponent Archie went 4W(1 kayo)-0L-1D with. The other draw on his record over that time came against HOFer Willie Pastrano. In other words, every single unavenged blemish on Archie's record after he turned 40 came against a fellow enshrinee in Canastota.

After April 21, 1944 (when Moore lost to Charley Burley) until March 15, 1963 (when Archie closed out his career with a three round kayo win over Iron Mike DiBiase), Moore posted a record of:

126W(85 kayos)-14L-5D. With one exception (a 12 round draw to 117 bout Belgian veteran Karel Sys in Buenos Aires) every single unavenged blemish on that 126-14-5 record came against HOF opposition.

What's Bernard Hopkins's record since he turned 40? 3W(0 kayos)-2L-0.

B-Hop is a superb boxer, but X has eons to go before he's even on the same planet as the Ole Mongoose.

I put Holmes at number two. He boxed Esch's ears off over ten rounds when he was 53 years old, and it's simply impossible to fake that. Also, he decisioned a previously undefeated Olympic Gold Medalist handily, a twelve round boxing lesson which to my mind is more impressive than a one punch kayo. The only clear cut defeat he sustained after Tyson was against Holyfield, and he went out a winner past the half century mark.

Foreman does get number three on my chart. The only clear cut defeats he sustained after turning 40 were against Morrison and Holyfield. Like Holmes, he should have been judged the winner in his last contest against Shannon Briggs.

Duran gets my number four slot. Went 18W(9 kayoes)7L-0D after turning 40, and 7W-5L-0D after turning 45. Celebrated his 49th birthday in Panama by avenging a previous loss to Pat Lawlor in winning a 12 round decison for the NBA Super Middleweight Title.

Fitz is my fifth choice. Was past 40 when he went 20 rounds to take the World LH Championship from George Gardiner.

 

Moore, Holmes, Fitz and Hopkins.

 

Far from the best, and very erractic past his peak, but considering a 28 year career, in which he had no qualms about fighting anyone, Joe "Old Bones" Brown probably deserves a mention in passing.

 

Willie Pep deserves a mention. After a layoff of over six years, he came back as a LW at age 42, and in a year's time posted a record of 9W (4 kayos)-1L, admittedly against less than stellar opposition, but still a respectable showing.

Luis "Lumumba" Estaba turned professional at age 29, became the inaugural world champion in the jr flyweight division after age 37, and defended the WBC light flyweight title 11 times (defeating three other world champions in the process), before Venuzuelan law forced him into retirement by age 40.

 

Maybe Jack Johnson deserves a mention.

Apparently he was still toying with his opponents as an out-of-shape 45 year old, and I've heard it said that he embarrassed Luis Firpo in a public sparring session shortly before Firpo's challenge to Dempsey.
Johnson was still doning gloves in his 50s, but got KO'd by a featherweight at age 60.

I think Evander Holyfield will get his dues in these conversations soon enough. The condition he keeps in is remarkable. A win over a genuine top 10 contender is very possibly still, and that would warrant comparison with Holmes besting Mercer. We shall see.

 

Jack Johnson is a great shout. He evidently gave Pat Lester a 15 round boxing lesson in Mexico when he was 48 years old, a filmed bout that may have been recorded with a motorized camera, capturing the subtle nuances of Lil Artha's defensive movements. Against the larger and younger Lester, that must make for interesting viewing.

 

Case could be made for Holmes, but I'd say Mongoose and X.

 

LMAO GEORGE FOREMAN HANDS DOWN !!! OLD LOUIS, OLD LISTON,OLD ALI, OLD HOLMES, OLD HOLYFIELD,OLD TYSON.... OLD FOREMAN WOULD **** IN THEIR FACES. THE OLDEST HW CHAMPION EVER. WE NEVER SAW AND WE NEVER WILL SEE A BOXER AS STRONG AS GEORGE FOREMAN IN HIS 40s

ARCHIE MOORE IS THE 2 IN MY LIST.

 

Honorable mention for Jersey Joe Walcott.