A flame of pure fire. When does age catch up to the high work rate, aggressive, swarmer and which Heavyweight has been able to hold on to it the longest?
I'd say most swarmers are done by about 31-32 age range. Dempsey, Frazier, Marciano, all were in that range. In terms of who was able to hold on the longest, I'd say it's between Marciano, who never lost, and Frazier, who lost the Thrilla in Manila but in a war.
Who beats Manila Frazier is a good question. Does any opponent of Joe's besides the two who actually did defeat him succeed in that situation? Does any version of Norton prevail over Smoke in Manila?
I think a lot of folks beat a Manila Frazier. Two equally depleted fighters made for a good match. It doesn't mean either one was anywhere near their top.
As has been written - Rocky Marciano and Joe Frazier. Joe was still pretty awesome at 31. Both his and Muhammad's workrate was marvelous considering they were at the verteran stage of their careers.
Some have suggested that Ali should have retired after Foreman, but we never would have known him to be capable of sustaining the punch rate he did in Manila. Others said Manila should have been the moment after which he called it a career, but Shavers, as damaging as it was to him neurologically, cemented his ATG chin status, and completed the composite which conclusively established him as the HW GOAT in the public mind. He proved to have the height, reach, punch resistance to body and head, speed, stamina and work rate over the Championship Distance necessary to defeat all human beings who will ever hold the HW Title in the future as well as the past. Looking at Ali-Patterson I, I don't believe any version of Joe could have hit Muhammad enough to the body or head in 1965-1967 to be competitive on the cards (although Smoke could well have been good to go for another 15 rounds at the final bell), but the fact in Manila is that Ali no longer had the legs of his youth, so Frazier kept pounding him until the punches of both were reduced to slaps, then was only withdrawn by Futch because his face was swollen to the point he couldn't see Muhammad's rights anymore. (As far past his peak as Ali was for the FOTC, it should also be noted that Joe's face swelled up in March 1971 where it was totally unmarked after Jerry Quarry I in 1969. Biologically, Smoke's boxing career, like SRL's, just wasn't blessed with a long competitive shelf life the way Ali's and Duran's were.)
