Best performance by Larry Holmes

Absolutely riveting stuff Anubis, it's great to read such "inside" information. This explains a lot too...

You could say that the above "holds water"???

PS I absolutely agree re Holmes' decline between Nov '83 & Nov '84. It is heartbreaking for an athlete when that realisation dawns that what you've had before you can never get back...

 

His speed and reflexes were on the decline from the Witherspoon fight onward. Yes, he still had good endurance. Having good endurance doesn't mean a fighter can't be on the decline. Look at Ali. He went 15 rounds many times after the third Frazier fight, but it was still obvious he was in decline.

Larry Holmes dumped the WBC title beause he didn't want to have to work with Don King anymore and so he wouldn't have to face the very top challengers to that title, who were all controlled by Don King. He saw the IBF title as a way to continue making money, while hand picking his opposition, and he could call himself the "real" champion because he had never lost the title in the ring. It was a brilliant career move on his part.

 

Saad, you're correct about his speed and reflexes, and Spoon was actually slightly faster in their bout, but Holmes took better care of himself than Ali, expressed that fact, and evolved to compensate in ways Muhammad never did.

For me, the "$64,000 Question" about Holmes-Spoon is what happens with three more rounds to go? Does Larry's experience clinch it for him in the championship stanzas despite being enervated with the runs, or does Tim himself stop foolishly running and continue going for the win? It has always been my supposition that Holmes hurt Spoon much more with that ninth round right than Tim will ever admit, and that's why Witherspoon really boxed the remainder of that contest as he did in blowing that shot.

Personally, I was much relieved that Larry did not lose the title on a 12 round decision, but ultimately had the scoring go against him over the full championship distance against another ATG.

Concerning Ali, Chuvalo and Patterson were both clear that he was not the same athlete in the early 1970s that he was in the mid 1960s. However, I do NOT believe Manila took out of him what is so commonly supposed. Although heavy, he also did most of the work in taking out well conditioned punching bag Coopman (who remained in excellent physical condition after his career ended), then showed up in utterly dismal shape for Young.

However, less than three and a half weeks after Young, he'd shed ten pounds and looked fine at 220 for Richard Dunn. (Just the luck of British fighters to get Muhammad in good trim, and not fighting down to his level of competition. In Malaysia's stifling humidity and 110 degree heat, Bugner boxed defensively, made Ali do most of the work and initiate the action, but when in condition, Muhammad was no wasteful Foreman when going on the attack, rushing at Joe against the ropes with flashing combinations repeatedly, then clinching to prevent counter attempts.)

That he could never be the same after Manila was Cosell's dramatic narrative of the Ali story, but how Muhammad proved he'd learned how to handle a southpaw with those darting lead rights on Dunn at 220 raises serious questions about that.

Going to Japan after Dunn for that mixed bout with Antonio Inoki, a notorious cheap shooter, really screwed up his legs forever after. He could no longer generate stoppage power in his punches after that fiasco in Japan. In the AWA, Buddy Wolfe, a fine athlete, showed how to do business with integrity rather than deception in a three round mixed exhibition with Muhammad, and talented worker Kenny Jay showed how to promote Ali for Inoki with skill in putting the GOAT over by selling a body slam, hip roll, and right handed swings to the ribs.

Rumor has it that Bruno Sammartino (a major childhood hero of Mike Tyson's) might have been Muhammad's opponent in what would have been a massive mixed bout in the States, but a botched body slam by a green Stan Hansen (which The Lariat really dislikes discussing in interviews, although he will answer the questions about it) completely ruined that possibility.

Bruno liked boxing (whereas the GOAT had learned much of his schtick from Gorgeous George Wagner), had sparred several rounds with Liston back in Sonny's heyday, practiced respect in his performances with everybody who didn't try shooting on him (which Inoki did foolishly attempt in Japan once, whereas Bruiser Frank Brody treated Sammartino with absolute respect, and has been seen doing a clean job to Bruno in at least three different matches on youtube), and unlike Inoki, Sammartino would have treated Muhammad with respect, done business with Ali, and maybe even use the occasion to retire after finishing a clean job to Muhammad in a Shea Stadium or Yankee Stadium sellout, preserving Ali for future boxing defenses if Muhammad wanted to continue on himself.

Don't think Stan Hansen hasn't frequently contemplated the true ramifications of that botched body slam which thankfully clueless interviewers never explore with him. Bruno had to come back prematurely to save that card at the Shea venue, the only profitable event during that world wide promotion as a result, but as Bret Hart repeatedly said BEFORE a green Bill Goldberg screwed him up with a concussion and career ending botch of his own, 100% of a professional wrestler's responsibility is to protect whoever he is working against from injury. Muhammad Ali versus Bruno Sammartino should have been the mixed main event in New York City. Antonio Inoki became a legend by being an a$$hole, and it got him into elective office in Japan, just as a$$holes get elected to office in the States as an award for being a$$holes.

Everybody knew how much Inoki screwed up Ali's legs when Muhammad was hospitalized to have them drained, and at a moment when questions were being raised about whether or not his athletic career was over as a result, one of his very first visitors with flowers and great personal concern was the classy Norton. When not boxing each other, they rooted for each other openly, and Ken always appreciated how Muhammad talked him up after their first match, never mentioning his neglected impacted wisdom tooth as a mitigating factor, only how Norton broke his jaw. ("Box him, Kenny, box!"-Ali beside Cosell to Norton during his challenge of Foreman in Caracas.)

Okay. Somehow, Muhammad recovers from Inoki's exploitative POS behavior in Japan, and gets through Norton III and Evangelista, but it appears Inoki took away his ability to sit down on his shots in Japan, and I wonder what Ali-Dunn might have looked like if it came after Inoki instead of before that farce.

Next comes the real Manila for Muhammad, the true reason he has a frozen face today and is virtually mute, and it has nothing to do with the body beatings he got from Frazier or Foreman, immediately after which his recall of everything was perfect. No, Muhammad Ali's true Manila came in the one fight where he recalled enough to say for a fact who the hardest puncher he ever fought was, then forgot much of the rest of the bout, a championship distance ordeal where he sustained more brain damage than in all his other amateur and professional matches combined.

"Acorn" was the nickname he called the opponent of his final successful title defense, due to his shaven scalp, and he looked more like the lovable basketball comic Curley Neal of the Harlem Globetrotters once shorn of the hair on his skull than any kind of intimidating gladiator. After Ali got punched by Earnie Shavers though, he might have nicknamed him "coconut shell hands" instead, because that's what his gloved fists felt like when they made contact with Muhammad's head.

I believe Richard Dunn proved Ali could still get the job done against even a first rate challenger if his weight was managed well, and his training was top notch preparation. Inoki took away his ability to generate punching power with his legs, but he was a boxer first, and could still get by with skills, some smoke and mirrors, and he could still stick and move with some timely movement if he could no longer plant himself to quickly generate an instant of power.

Motor coordination from neurological damage inflicted by Shavers was permanent though, and even in victory during his rematch with Leon Spinks, Cosell made note of how he was continually misfiring against a green opponent who I still believe could have won the rematch with a professionally ordered corner as in their first match. (Sorry to say it, but Michael Spinks was one of the culprits during that rematch. "Wiggle?" "Boogie?" That's a far cry from, "Pound his biceps when he rope-a-dopes so he can't fire with power later in the fight, split his guard with uppercuts, punch his sides to build up points, and don't give him a break." He needed Sam Solomon and George Benton in his corner, but got parasites instead. And Mr T became a television star and pop icon by virtue of being an incompetent body guard for Leon when he should have been salting all the leeches attaching themselves to the new champion.)

Weight control and perfect training were never going to bring Ali back from the brain damage and permanent compromise of fine motor coordination which has been deteriorating ever since. Over the championship distance, Muhammad Ali stood up to more clean head shots from Shavers than everybody else Earnie ever fought put together. (Tiger Williams absorbed more right hands, but they were almost all to the body.) Take away Inoki, and if the GOAT had then hypothetically kept his weight at or below 220 pounds while staying in shape after Manila, his wins over Young and in Norton III would not have been controversial, he takes out Evangelista, and we don't have Cosell's Pyrrhic victory over Frazier in Manila narrative. There was no coming back from the brain damage Shavers inflicted though, brain damage which sent his reflexes into a permanent tail spin.

 

Maybe Larry's best was his toilet-time.

 

This post, is excellent. :good