Best Performances in a Draw?

Young vs Shavers II

 

Pac D12 JMM

Hearns D12 Leonard

Rahman D12 Tua

 

Ben Villaflor vs Samuel Serrano I

April 13, 1976 in Honolulu, Hawaii

The Challenger, Samuel Serrano spanks Champion Ben Villaflor's butt all night long.

The Decision is announced a Draw, and even the loyal Honolulu fans boo in disgust.

Samuel Serrano won by an easy 5-points,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Curious post. Most people thought Gene lost all of those "draws" by varying degrees. I cant figure out if you calling him the victim, and stating he "gained acclaim" by these performances is tongue in cheek or not. If not I suggest you go back and watch those fights.

 

No, no, the only one of those bouts where I suggested Gene gained acclaim was the draw against Tiger, giving Giardello and Robinson the credit in the other two draws. I hoped I inferred as much for SRR IV by placing the term "victim" in quotation marks for Gene as the "loser" (although he retained the title).

My subjective impression is that Gene should indeed have been 0-3 in those draws, with a better than expected showing in Tiger II after all the mileage he'd accumulated.

Apologies for any confusion. Much of what I post is inferential, something you'll get better at interpreting as you familiarize yourself with my characteristic phraseology. (And yes, I do make comments tongue in cheek from time to time. Posters who regularly read my drivel are pretty good at deciphering my meanings. Keep in mind I'm no professional writer, just somebody typing on the fly.)

 

Weaver being screwed outta victory in his '83 rematch with Dokes....

MR.BILL

 

Hearns against Ray in 1981.. Had Hearns only recieved the decision he deserved. He would have then had wins against Cueves, Duran,Benitez,Leonard, Hill.

 

You mean '89.....:deal

 

Sweet pea against chavez.

Terrible robbery. Scoring round by round as 12 independent mini fights, there's no way you can give julio more than 4 rounds.

 

Of all three draws the Robinson fight I thought was the only one that Gene should have lost. The Giardello fight could have gone either way IMO and I thought Gene got robbed in the second Tiger fight. Fullmer actually outboxed Dick Tiger for most of the bout using his left jab and fighting the same way he fought Basilio; avoiding getting into the trenches.

 

Scott LeDoux perhaps gave a career best performance in his draw with Ken Norton.

 

Which expresses some differences of opinion with LT that explain why these were draws.

Myself, I wouldn't be adverse at all to his suggestion of going back and looking at each, this time with scorecard in hand though. A "subjective impression" is most definitely not a systematic breakdown of an entire bout from beginning to end, and prejudicial sentimentality can certainly play a role in such opinions. (And even then, viewing old footage is definitely NOT the same as watching at ringside.)

The main question concerning this thread is whether or not Gene's trilogy of high profile championship draws with fellow HOFers are worthy of mention in connection with the performances of either or both participants. These matches haven't been derided as poor selections here (at least not yet). In fact, they've aroused some discussion as to who deserves credit most for their showings, Gene, Robby, Joey or Dick.

Interestingly, I've always experienced Gene as being given full credit for his boxing ability and capacity for movement. There have been youtube commentators, for example, who've expressed surprise at seeing him retreating and circling the ring perimeter as he's shown doing with the powerful Lausse, but all literary accounts I've read of his skills and versatility in the past (long before internet video services allowed everybody to review him in action) made it clear he was very far from the one dimensional brawler casual fans commonly suppose him to be, even today.

 

I thought the best performance I saw Scott in was with Marty Monroe.

Until he thumbed Kenny's eye in the eighth, Norton was having all the better of it, handily outboxing LeDoux, particularly with multiple hooks to the body. As far as I was concerned, Ken was robbed by a hometown draw. There can be argument as to whether or not Scott deserved a final moment stoppage win, but I can't buy Norton not being awarded the decision once the final bell rang, however furious LeDoux's post thumbing rally was in the final two rounds, not after Kenny had virtually (if not outright) swept the first seven rounds of a ten round bout. Scott finished dramatically at the tail end before raucous supporters in Bloomington, but got taken to school through most of it.

 

Spoken like someone who never saw Giardello-Fullmer, or Tiger-Fullmer.

Fullmer ran and clinched against Tiger and Giardello when it became obvious he couldnt beat them. Call that "boxing" all you want but he certainly didnt have nearly the same success against Tiger as he did Basilio and he was hardly throwing any punches, jabs or otherwise. In fact that fight was far wider in favor of Tiger than the one Giardello should have won.

 

If I didnt give the impression that they were poor performances than I will. Against Tiger Fullmer ran the entire time. It was a perplexing change of form for him which prompted an infuriated Dick Tiger to ask afterwards why Fullmer didnt try to actually win the fight, instead of running and hoping the judges would bless him with a controversial decision.

Against Giardello Fullmer turned in one of his ugliest performances in a career marred by ugly fights. He spent the first few rounds headbutting Giardello and finally in the fourth when he lurched in with another headbutt Giardello simply dropped at the knees slightly and turned Fullmers headbutt against him. Then Fullmer whined to the ref and looked like he was going to quit. After that he would do nothing but run around the ring, leap into a clinch, wait for the ref to break them, and then repeat it all over again.