Best strategy for a boxer vs a mma fighter?

Discussion in 'Boxing Training' started by Bogotazo, Apr 5, 2010.


  1. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yeah, obviously there's no magic formula to never lose. But it's common sense that a boxer must learn some MMA to have a fighting chance in this matchup.
     
  2. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    Bump, since I really loved the responses in this thread, and wanted to share this video, in which Shamrock highlights a lot of boxing-oriented tactics for avoiding vulnerability to a take-down.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDnnmENhJp4[/ame]
     
  3. Chex31

    Chex31 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7wwHUL0fTg&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

    A left check hook works at stopping double leg takedowns, and I seen somewhere that jabbing to the chest works too.
     
  4. Journey Man

    Journey Man Journeyman always. Full Member

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    :rofl:rofl Post of the month right here.
     
  5. bald_head_slick

    bald_head_slick Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The best strategy for a Boxer is to realize Boxing is a LIMITED sport and to cross train. A Boxer's only hope is to land fast and do severe damage.

    Boxing is effective, but every Western male knows a Boxing stance. Any MMA (or any other martial art/sport) practitioner worth his salt will be able to spot a quality Boxing stance in seconds. When he does? He will proceed to go to Plan B, i.e., a take down, on your Boxing a$$. Any man who is practicing Boxing as a martial art vs a sport needs to be in a gym with other fighting styles so that he can cross spar and modify sport Boxing accordingly.

    Also, any skill set for "self-defense" can no longer even be mentioned without some base grappling skill. If you are not prepped for a shoot? You are not prepared.
     
  6. lefty

    lefty Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The assumption you make is that every boxer won't have any idea how to wrestle, from my experience I've found that strength, reflexes and balance play a far larger part in grappling than any skill training ever can. I have a friend who has 25kgs on me and trains mma yet 9 times out of 10 I have him on his back when we wrestle. I'm a good athlete but I've only ever trained boxing. Armbars and the like are also things I think that come naturally, if you know how joints move you know how to make someone uncomfortable instinctively. On one occasion my friend who I was talking about grabbed me low when I was standing up too high and got me on the ground, I managed to flick my body up and get on even ground with him in a grapple, out of nowhere I grabbed his arm and got a lock on it that forced him to give in. Where did that come from, I'm just a boxer?
     
  7. vonLPC

    vonLPC Active Member Full Member

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    I agree completely with this. My best friend is a legit BJJ purple belt and far better with the gi than without. I watch him destroy far more athletic and bigger guys in sparring, and his wrestling takedowns are only "good" by wrestling standards. He is 180lbs but when he gets on top of you he feels like 400lbs. Good Judokas and BJJ guys know how to be very heavy. Even the mid level blues with some wrestling destroy the athletes with little training. There should never be any athlete with little grappling background that should EVER submit somebody with good ground skills and sub defense.

    That being said, I agree with Lefty that balance and strength can be helpful, but no way play a larger part than skills. I have found that folks who know how to clean and snatch in the gym have a better knowledge of how to use there hips than those who don't, thus making at least a basic sprawl for the most part fundamentally right. However, if anyone has tried to avoid takedowns with someone that knows how to "chain" wrestle, it is almost impossible to avoid the second or third transition. I trained with a collegiate wrestler who could barely walk in a straight line, had no strength and was slow, slow, slow. I am completely the antithesis and have some functional wrestling skills. He made me look stupid. I also outweigh him by 45 lbs.

    Just my experiences folks.:D
     
  8. Primate

    Primate Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I respect you and I generally enjoy reading your posts on this forum, but this is terribly ignorant. Yes, being a powerful athletic guy will help, but there's no way in hell it's more important than skill.
    Your friend must be an absolutely abysmal grappler. Granted, yes, anyone can grab and arm and twist, but any semi-decent submission grappler should a) be able to avoid having someone with no experience lock him up, and b) be able to counter any sloppy submission attempts with a submission or a sweep of his own.

    Also, if he was even a remotely competent grappler it should be difficult for you to hold him down even if you outweighed him. The fact that he outweighed you (by 25kg?!) and you could still hold him under you says to me that he has precisely zero serious grappling experience.

    When I weighed 75kgs as a shiny new blue belt I could hold down guys who outweighed me upwards of 20kg. If they did manage to explode out I'd be on my way to a submission before they could reset themselves.
     
  9. lefty

    lefty Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Interesting... thanks for the responses guys. I've found that it's the ability to reposition your body quicker than the other guy and maintain balance that makes the difference in a wrestle, I've always been able to get bigger guys on their back as long as I can remember (keeping them there is a bit more difficult). The only UFC guy that I've seen and thought "This guy is good" is GSP and he does just that, always balanced and in the best position even when on the offensive. So you guys reckon BJJ guys are the hardest to wrestle with? How about classical olympic style wrestlers? Might head down to a place and have a go with somebody experienced so I know what you guys are talking about :good
     
  10. bald_head_slick

    bald_head_slick Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I am not really making an assumption. I think it is more you having the assumption that the "idea of how to wrestle" will actually trump being skilled in wrestling. As any Boxer knows, one shot is all it takes. You don't "assume" you can take a punch just like you don't assume "If I had to? I could wrestle."

    With all due respect, your friend may not be that good. Also, your friend hasn't bitten you or twisted your flesh. I went into classes with guys who trained BJJ. I was in MONSTER shape and could muscle most of the White belts and got a bit ****y. The teacher threw me in with a small blue belt and I muscled him ONCE and actually didn't have a solid choke that I think I could have "finished" him with. After that? It was choke and arm bar city (on me). Mind you I was on top the whole time too.

    Not to knock your friend. A random skilled grappler? My guess you will be toast fairly quickly. Especially if he can feint you into believing you are in a fist fight. Just like pressure crushes even the gamest Boxing newbie, the pressure of an intent grappler will most likely smash an unprepared stand up fighter.

    Mind you, I am a believer in Boxing. I just feel that it is silly to think that a SPORT can trump a Martial Art in the hands of a skilled practitioner. There is no "fair" in Martial Arts.
     
  11. lefty

    lefty Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I don't usually hold my mate down, the occasion I was talking about he didn't want his arm to break so he just gave up. If I do try to keep him down it isn't by holding him it's by moving around keeping him off balance all the time by dragging him in different directions using his weight against him. I feel it's just my innate balance, strength and reflexes that allow me to do that against whoever I'm wrestling with so that's why I based my views off that. I'm genuinely interested now in wrestling against somebody who is skilled. How do you guys get taught skills?
     
  12. lefty

    lefty Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Fair call. To be honest most of the people I've come across who call themselves 'Martial Artists' are soft, unathletic people who believe a real fight plays out like a movie scene.
     
  13. bald_head_slick

    bald_head_slick Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Not harder, just different. If you are strong, fit, and athletic? I think you have a better chance of "powering" the wrestlers out versus the BJJ guys who are all about "finessing" their way to winning verses more physically dominant opponents.

    I have met BJJ guys who's whole game is based on "losing" their way into "winning", i.e., winning off of their back. The natural reaction of a grappling newb once he has "dominance" is to pull back arms outstretched to get distance... game over.

    You don't see it now due to the elevation of MMA practitioners, but watch the old UFC fights when Royce dominated. Candy from babies!
     
  14. bald_head_slick

    bald_head_slick Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I agree.

    Go to a REAL Brazilian owned BJJ studio. Those guys are studs who grapple. I grappled "at weight" and it was a "little brother" beat down. :lol:
     
  15. lefty

    lefty Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Alright, thanks mate. Let's see how I go :lol:
     


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