Best technician: Hopkins or Toney?

That's true, I forgot about Winky, small as he was.

Dunno about him beating Taylor though... in either fight.

 

My bad I was editing my post before you responded lol. Still, an older yet still capable Mccallum was still a better technician than anyone Hopkins ever fought and greater than Wright.

 

Wright was 170 pound when he fought Hopkins. atsch

 

really? had no idea a former LMW would rehydrate that much.

 

They weighed in at 170. Im sure Wright came into the ring heavier.

 

i dont think its even debatable that toney at his best is the better technician , hopkins is a very good all rounder and definately has footwork in my eyes but thats about it for me toney counters/slips to well , i think the toney of the first 2 mccallum fights would pick hopins apart

 

This

Toney has real boxing skills. He can throw punches from angles and yet still maintain the balance of his fat frame. He can stand in the pocket and make decent fighters miss whilst countering. He can fight off the ropes. He can use leverage to prpduce one punch ko power shots. His weakness is the hamburger.

Hopkins is hard working and tenacious with craftiness. He fouls more than almost any fighter i have seen let alone a shoe in for the hof. He is best countering his opponent but is not as good as Fat Toney in this regard. He leads with his head in situations where he other fighter is getting thebetter of him, eg Winky Wright and Calzaghe.

For his longevity and grit he is probably number one, but he doesn't have skills like James Toney.

In my opinion, if Toney had the grit and willpower of Hopkins you might have a top 10 atg.

 

Yeah if you could combine Toney's skills with Hopkins discipline what a fighter you would have. Each at their very best, Toney was a better technician imho.

 

Harold Johnson would have beaten either one of them.

 

Both are skillful and I have Hopkins' career set but I've seen much worse fouling experts, people highlight that part about him way too much. There were worse than him trust me(Fullmer, Saddler,etc) and it was his ring smarts that won him his fights not the fouls. Prime for Prime I think Toney was the better techinician but overall I think Hopkins is the better technician. Hard to say who's better in a technical fashion but it's clear that Toney was the better infighter. I like both especially at their shining points in their careers. Toney is done right now and after Hopkins' career I'm sure he'll get the love he deserves as a fighter. Both greats and I'm not sure if Toney is an ATG but I'd prefer him than the many so called "fighters" nowadays, Toney would face anyone.

 

I feel if you listed out what each man did better than the other, Hopkins would have the longer list. By quite a bit. He was a better fighter as I see it, anyway you want to spin it.

 

Negative captain. It was Toney. Watch the whole fight.

 

The thing is when Hopkins fights guys like WInky/Holmes he isn't too adept at taking their jab away and sort of looks to turn pressure fighter roughin them up inside, nothing wrong with that as it worked but these aren't really the elite technicians hes doing it to. I thought Taylor won too many rounds in both fights really. Toney certainly is better at slipping jabs and throwing a right over them

 

OK, Echols and Allen roughed Hopkins up on the inside. How did they do that? They were raw and unpolished on the inside and the only reason they really roughed up Hopkins was with their clumsiness and raw strength. Toney on the other hand was much smoother on the inside, and if anything tended to stand his ground rather than impose himself inside, so I don't see what this comparison proves.

It wasn't as if Echols was standing in the pocket contering Hopkins was it? And anyway IMO he was pretty ineffective inside as it was.

Taylor on the outside does not resemble Toney in the slightest. He tended to use his athletic ability and reach to stay away. I don't see how these examples prove anything really.

Yes, Toney could counter him and he would do it well. But we have seen Toney is often slow with his feet and does not react that great to angles being presented at him. Now Hopkins is really good at finding angles as he attacks, be it off the jab or to start his attack, so I think this could go a long way in off-setting Toney's counter-punching.

In his prime though, lets say around the Johnson fight, even with Echols and Mercado. He was picking these guys apart from all ranges. Not to suggest he could with Toney. I'm just saying he wasn't just some meat grinder of a fighter. It was as he got older he tended to go inside more IMO.

Slightly over the top description of his style. Thats like me saying Toney just plants his feet and waits for an opening to counter.

Jones just stayed a step ahead throughout really. Although Hopkins did have sucess at long-range with him also.

With Taylor, Hopkins really had to get inside because of the reach of Taylor. And he worked mid-range quite well. In the rematch Hopkins did pretty good. But IMO, aside from the Wright fight, this is his worst performances.

Taylor and Jones cannot be in anyway perceived as technicians though, can they?

Wright was probably the best.

I've watched the first Taylor fight a few times, Hopkins lost it IMO, definitly. The rematch should have went Bernards way IMO.

Who cares?

Toney would have eaten him.

Anyway, I say Hopkins is better technically.