Best Wins in Any Weight-Class?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Maxmomer, Apr 1, 2010.

  1. Maxmomer

    Maxmomer Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Top 3, 5, 10, whatever. Can't be 7, though. Nobody does a top 7. Choose any weight-class you like. Except bantamweight. And God help me, if anybody does a top 7 at bantamweight, I'll...be very disappointed.

    Heavyweight
    Schmeling KO 12 Louis
    Schmeling beat arguably the greatest HW of all time in emphatic fashion by stoppage. Louis was a bit green, but in his physical prime and coming off of some of his most impressive wins.

    Frazier UD 15 Ali
    Frazier won a clear decision against possibly the best version of post-exile Ali to step into the ring.

    Ali KO 8 Foreman
    Foreman was a wrecking machine, in his prime. Ali was past it, and won decisively on smarts and grit.
     
  2. spion

    spion Active Member Full Member

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    Of course Buster Douglas knocking out Mike Tyson has to be on the list.

    I think at the time Ali's TKO over Liston was big news too.
     
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Walcott Choynsky-welterweight Walcott basicaly demolished the beat light heavyweight on the planet.

    Greb Tunney I-Greb won every round. It was a masacre.

    Walker Sharkey-Not a win, but what almost happened there is incredible.
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I'll go for Langford's victory over Gans. The fight reports are full of phrases like "out-boxed" and "out-generalled". Fair enough if a green Langford had somehow landed a huge punch on the primed Gans but he appears, as a very young man, to have beaten the great Gans at his own game.

    Although Gans had been active the night before in a short fight and apparently had some sort of stomach injury, he was also one of the very best on the planet pound for pound, and Langford beat him only a few pounds above his best weight. Astonishing, under-nominated win.
     
  5. Lobotomy

    Lobotomy Guest

    Robinson-Gavilan II. Arguably the greatest successful title defense ever at 147, and a case could be made for all lighter weight divisions. (Greb-Walker is also a serious contender here though.)

    Gavilan-Basilio. The second greatest successful title defense at WW. Normally, challengers of this caliber dethrone the reigning champion, who has to try redeeming himself in a rematch, but Robby and the Keed managed to hold on.

    Montreal. For me, this established the smaller and perhaps already past peak Duran as the greatest P4P fighter since Robby. Not as close as the final scores suggest. El Cholo essentially had this one wrapped up after the first ten.

    Jack Britton KO 9 Ted Lewis. Saint Patrick's Day, 1919. Lewis was the champion going in, he was 25 years old, and in a situation where the title could only change hands on a stoppage, he was the one with the reputation for a much harder punch. Jack was already 33 years old. Incredibly, it was Britton who produced the only knockout win in their 20 fight series! (Later, he would take the newspaper decision over 12 against a young Walker in a nontitle affair, decking Mickey in the process.)

    Armstrong-Ross. 'Nuff said.

    Duran-Palomino. I think this just trumps SRR-Gavilan I as the biggest non title win at 147. Carlos wasn't afraid of Roberto going in, but Duran had him flinching at feints before too long. The final scoring this time reflected what the Montreal cards would have looked like after ten. Years later, Duran would trash Cuevas as well, suggesting that, in retrospect, he may have been the world's best WW while still the undisputed LW Champion.

    Cuevas-Espada I. Angel Espada was seemingly on his way to greatness. Pipino was an 18 year old kid with a 15-6 record coming off a ten round UD loss to Andy Price. Cuevas becomes one of the youngest champions in boxing history. Cuevas-Espada II was actually the best fight in their trilogy, but this one made history.

    SRL-Hearns I. For the first time in over half a dozen years, there is a single undisputed champion at 147. Cuevas, Palomino, Benitez and Duran all make the IBHOF, with Hearns a first ballot lock to join them, but Ray emerges as the first unquestioned king of the WW division since Napoles voluntarily forfeits the WBA version in 1975.

    Griffith-Paret I. Gil Clancy awakens a naturally passive Griff with a slap across the face, and Emile responds by dropping Benny for the count to become a champion for the first time. From there, Griffith and Clancy take each other to the HOF.

    McLarnin-Ross II. Jimmy breaks through to defeat his era's candidate as the P4P best. The next year, after wins over Canzoneri and Ambers, he would begin the longest retirement of any former champion in the history of the sport. (68 years!)
     
  6. Maxmomer

    Maxmomer Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Where do you rate Napoles win over Griffith?
     
  7. Lobotomy

    Lobotomy Guest

    Max, depending on my mood, it could have easily made my top ten. It can be hard for me to rate wins over Griffith though, since he could have a tendency to blow matches. Too much is made of how the Paret tragedy affected him however. A lack of aggression nearly cost him his first title shot, he did fritter away that WW championship in their second match, and was nearly knocked out during that rubber match.

    As successful defenses go, Napoles-Griffith is certainly not far behind SRR-Gavilan II and Gavilan-Basilio, but Griff was already past 30, and would never again hold a title, although he would remain a tremendous contender for years.
     
  8. horst

    horst Guest

    I think the best wins ever are (in no order):


    Duran-Leonard 1
    Langford-Gans
    Langford-Flowers
    Greb-Tunney 1
    Armstrong-Ross
    Ali-Foreman
     
  9. The Funny Man 7

    The Funny Man 7 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Bivin's win over Moore doesn't get enough ink around here.
     
  10. Maxmomer

    Maxmomer Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Fair enough. Good list overall. Mine would be similar.
     
  11. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Some possible picks:

    HW: Douglas-Tyson

    LHW: Greb-Tunney

    MW: Duran-Barkley

    WW: A couple of good candidates here. Duran-Leonard, of course, one or two of Pac´s wins at WW, but there must be some further back as well. I´ll go with Armstrong-Ross.
     
  12. Maxmomer

    Maxmomer Boxing Addict Full Member

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    At WW I think Duran-Leonard and Robinson-Gavilan are very close. I feel both Gavilan and Leonard have a case for the No. 2 spot at the weight. I generally rate Duran's win higher because he was moving up above his best weight, while Robinson was at his best at 147.
     
  13. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    How about Armstrong beating up Ross while giving up almost 10 lbs?

    And I know the issue about Pac´s possible greatess is controversial (as it always will be with fighters that aren't long since retired) but a guy that won his first title at flyweight beating the living crap out of world class WWs must account for something. People slobber all over Duran outclassing Palomino, as they should, but how about Pac destroying Cotto in that case?

    At LW I feel Robinson's victory over Angott should be a nominee.
     
  14. Lobotomy

    Lobotomy Guest

    Although I previously cited this, it must also be acknowledged that Barney didn't have SRL's firepower. Also, Hank weighed at or below the lightweight limit for his first seven WW defenses. Although Ross was clearly greater, Armstrong's first WW defense against Garcia involved more resistant opposition. Unlike Barney, Ceferino was able to hurt him. Garcia would knock out IBHOFers Lloyd Marshall and Fred Apostoli within a year. (Fortunately for us, Armstrong-Garcia I & II are on film for evaluation.)
    In this era, there will unfortunately never be any escaping the charge of growth enhancing and performance enhancing substances, fair or not. Ultimately, he'll be correctly judged within the context of his own era, when it will be clearly observed whether or not anybody else was able to duplicate what he did, regardless of the access everybody else had to the same means Manny had.
    I assume you're referring to their first match, an impressive filmed performance. While his two wins over Angott make it clear that Ray should have been the first triple division champion after Armstrong, I don't rate it at lightweight as they were both just over 135. (Trivial, yes, but true.)
     
  15. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Good point.