Beterbiev vs Bivol - how did you score it

While 8 was somehow close, how you gave him Round 6 and 12 exactly? Or more importantly on what exactly?
The other rounds i completely agree.

 

I agree with that, embrace the style you prefer, own it!

I like both styles and try to find a middle ground, but it's not easy.

Personally I also have emphasis on championship rounds, and who wants it more in the last 3rd, and last night that clearly was Beterbiev, his corner lit a fire under him in round 10, and I never saw what Bivols corner were saying, but if they told him he had it in the bag, then they did him no favours - they should have been telling him to work - jab & move, but work and score as much as he could!

 

You are top class poster, but scoring is not and should not be subjective.
There is clear criteria and based on this clear criteria there was just 1 winner.
And the fight is scored round by round.
You can't go back and say oh Beterbiev finshed strong, let me give him some of the early rounds too, when you are at the 12 round.
The effective aggression from Beterbiev was in Round 4,5, 10 and 11, nowhere else to be seen.
Any other round he was outlanded badly, and Bivol stood his ground.

How many times did Bivol ended up on the ropes, where you can actually claim effective aggression and punches being landed?

Now i know you are huge Beterbiev fan, but tells me what Beterbiev and his corner body language is ?

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You can also look how he look with head down straight after the final bell.
He and his team knew they lost big time.
This wasn't that hard to score fight at all. And this never in a million year was Beterbiev fight at all.

 

That makes no sense, as Boxing is scored Round by Round. You can't jump back in the early Rounds and say i will change my scoring, cause X guy win the Championship Rounds. And Beterbiev won Round 10 and 11 clean, no doubt about, but he never in a million year won Round 12.

 

Beterbiev won as showed more aggression and had the higher work rate throughout the 2nd half of the fight. Bivol fought in flashes...eye catching as they were, they didn't win him the round. 7-5 in rounds was how I seen it for Beterbiev

 

Did u see Bivols face at the end? 10 or less clean punches caused that??? Behave

 

I know boxing is scored round by round, but humans - even judges - are fallible, and I think that whatever success Bivol had in round 12 was offset by the perception that Beterbiev was sweeping the championship rounds, pushing Dmitry back into being a passive shell of his normal workrate, being the ring general and making Dmitry fight his fight .

Round 12, may have been closer than my initial reaction watching the fight, but that reaction was fuelled by Bivol's output having dropped trickle in 11 and thinking that Artur might even get the stoppage.

It might not be right or fair, but perception in a fight is important and can influence judges.

And to clarify, what I mean by 'emphasis on championship rounds' is I hate seeing fighters take their foot off the gas in those rounds especially in a close fight where every round might count, not that i'd change rounds already scored! I'm always going to give the nod to the fighter that is really trying to win it in the final rounds and not leave anything to chance.

I'm sure when Bivol watches it back he will regret his approach in 10 & 11 especially

 

I saw 6 rounds that Bivol clearly won, 5 rounds that Beterbiev clearly won, and one very close round.

If you give the close round to Beterbiev, it's a 114-114 a draw.

But if you give it to Bivol, it's 115-113 for Bivol. If I score it 10-10, it's 115-114 for Bivol.

The 116-112 score for Beterbiev was due either to incompetence, or maybe corruption by Top Rank.

 

But Dmitry didn't fault Beterbiev fight, as Beterbiev fight is KOing his opponents, and landing clean hard shots, which he never did on Bivol outside of very few occassions.

And the Rounds Bivol won clearly, aka Round 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 12 with somehow exception of 12, Bivol wasn't backed up. He was moving and countering everything Beterbiev was throwing. Also the First 3 Round, and 6,7,8,9 Bivol was mainly in the center of the Ring.

The so call Aggression and Ring Generalship for Beterbiev was obvious in some of the Rounds, but not even half of them. Round 10 and 11 he start pushing hard, when he was told HE needs a KO and is losing big time.
That's when he start being the bully, but not before that. His head was boxed heavily before that.

The fight was won by Bivol before Round 10 even bell.
Again i had it 7-2 before the 10th, and you can try and score the fight Round by Round, but there is no way in hell Beterbiev won any of the Round 1,2,3, 6,7,8 and 9.

And have in mind Round 4 and 5 were actually close rounds, which i score for Beterbiev. And judges have different view on this Rounds. As 2 of them gave Round 4 for Bivol. But somehow one of the cleanest Round 3, all 3 idiots gave the Round to Beterbiev. Clear corruption or incompetence.

As your last sentence giving the nod to the guy that finish strong, so we should score Briedies - Opetaia 2 for Briedis then ? We should ignore that Opetaia dominated the fight, till Round 9 or so, and score the fight for Briedis as he won the last 4 rounds big or so?

Beterbiev may have finished strong, but he started terribly. Why should you give an edge for someone finishing strong, instead of someone starting strong? This is bias.
Bivol clearly expended more energy in the earlier rounds, building lead, as this is a clear and good strategy to do.

And yeah sorry for me being harsh, you are very decent poster i just still don't get over this robbery.
Just rewatched the fight, and can't see anything else other than 8-4, or 7-5. None of Bivol Rounds was close at all, so any other score for me is biased.
And Beterbiev winning that Fight is 100% impossible.

 

It's all good, debate on these things is why I love the forum!

Probably one of my biggest issues scoring fights is I try to be as objective as I can - I try and alternate swing rounds between fighters, and I try not to be overly biased to either the 'hit and not get hit' guy or the 'relentless aggressor' guy. Personally I think this is why some scores can swing wide in matches like this where the styles are chalk and cheese - i'm betting judges don't try and 'see both sides', they will favour what they like consistently, and that could mean wide swings where one fighter gets all the close rounds because of the judges bias/preferences. I try to avoid this as I feel it gives me a fairer closer relfection of the action, especially in these chalk and cheese affairs.

I had Bivol 1-3 and 7-9 - these were rounds I felt his defence and clean punching was better than what Artur put forth.
I had Beterbiev 4-6 and 10-12 - these were rounds I felt that Bivol's defence was too passive for 20-30 second stretches, with not enough jabs / counters, allowing Artur to dictate the distance, pace and deliver his shots - and although Dmitry di well to block in these rounds, Artur did connect on the body and partial shots and I favoured his work in these rounds.

Am I 100% on these - no, many of these rounds were very close, and many people will favour Beterbiev's work, taking to land, punching through the guard (even if only partially) and dictating terms. Many others will favour Bivol's elusiveness, accuracy and efficiency and cleaner work (albeit less of it)

We can go in circles in this, the difference between us is that I can see the draw, 7-5 to Bivol or 7-5 to Beterbiev - probably because I can see both viewpoints (and will be honest that I try and represent both viewpoints when scoring to be as objective as possible). I love your certainty on what you think, but I see it as a bit more fluid. That said I feel that 8-4 to either fighter is not a real reflection of the fine margins of the fight, but I'd guess that the Judge that score 116-112 to Artur did not favour the 'hit and not get hit' side and went with the workrate and relentlessness of Beterbiev in all the close rounds.

 

I thought Bivol lost the fight by losing the 11th and 12th rounds . He seemed to be weirdly inactive those two rounds. ,,,and I was right.

 

Not every punch landed has to be clean in order to be scored. Clean punches catch the eye, but aren't necessarily as effective as punches that land less cleanly. Fights aren't scored on AI, they are scored round by round and some of the factors for scoring aren't to do with punches landed, certainly not the cleanliness of the punches. There were some rounds where they both landed a similar number of punches but Beterbiev was the aggressor and showed better ring generalship, therefore he picks up those tight rounds

You can't just quote AI stats you need to actually watch the action closely and factor EVERYTHING in if you want your scorecard to be taken seriously. 7-5 Bivol is fine but anything wider comes across as biased. The fact you can't see a draw also makes me think you're watching this fight from a biased perspective

 

This was my live card

R1: Bivol

R2: Bivol

R3: beterbiev

R4: beterbiev

R5: beterbiev

R6: bivol

R7: bivol

R8: beterbiev

R9: Bivol

R10: beterbiev

R11: beterbiev

R12: beterbiev

7-5

 

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It is not unreasonable to score 6 and 12 for Bivol.

But if you scored rounds 6 and 12 as clear for Bivol, there are only two possibilities.


1) You don't know how to score.
or
2) You don't know the meaning of the word "clear."