Better All-Around Fighter: Primo Carnera or Riddick Bowe?

This is a nonsense. Schaff was winning fights and regaining form as a top contender since the Baer loss. He had recovered from the Baer loss and was winning fights again.

After the Carnera fight, the newspapers went with the "walking wounded, shouldn't have been in the ring" angle because that was a more sensational. It was as if Schaff had done nothing since losing to Baer when in fact he was in good form and on a win streak.

But it simply does not stack up. Before the Carnera fight Schaff was the favourite because he was back to winning form. How can he be both favorite to beat Carnera and back to winning form if hes "walking wounded" still recovering from a beating from Max Baer? How was schaff winning his recent fights by knockout in that still recovering condition?

It was simply a mysterious death. Schaff vs Carnera was a big fight. 18,000 fans went to see it. And it was a world title eliminator. The press would have been visiting both training camps and the build up would have been reported on in the way all fights of that magnitude were at that time. Schaff was the clear favourite.

Later, after the death of Carnera, it emerged that Schaff had been treated “some weeks” previously for flu like symptoms, There was no whispers before the fight that Schaff was still unwell.

A report into the death said Schaff had been treated for flu some weeks earlier.

That could actually mean schaff had the flu between Schaffs last two earlier fights against unknown Winston and Stanly poreda - who Ernie knocked out.

Officially, traces of undetectable spinal meningitis were present, microscopic traces, And during a long fight, together with the the punches from Carnera aggravated the virus, causing swelling in the brain. That was the real conclusion.

Everything else written about this is a case of two and two making five. The Max Baer Beating, going into the fight with flu are just theories. They made it into boxing folks lore, but it just isn’t consistent with the facts. It’s Mostly myth.

A sad and tragic mysterious death. That’s the truth.

On paper, The poreda win looks about as good as anything on Schaffs record.

The schaff fight had a tragic end, but is a notable win for Carnera.

 

Me when I see this beastly thread again

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This wasn't your post: The power Carnera showed flattening Campolo, a man his own size, was a better example of translating power into his punches. And it’s on film to see.

Sharkey had already defeated Carnera decisively. He was fairly past it, rusty, not having fought in a year, and may or may not have taken a dive against Carnera.

Outside of Sharkey, many of the men Carnera beat were not very good. Not to mention a good chunk of them were fixed on his behalf.

Oh man Chok! I don't even know what to say.

This is the first time, in quite a while I mentioned Williams in a thread not concerning him, and it was just to point out your laughable double standards. I don't have an "obscure distraction" in Williams. You on the other hand...

Directed towards you and Kompton

The only thing "We all know" is that you're the one with the peculiar obsession with Williams' and the need to disparage him at every turn. But I'm willing to drop it and continue our discussion without him, if you're willing to.

He might've been a giant in terms of height, but he was NOT the same size as Carnera as you claimed. He was 40+ pounds lighter. Foreman had a much smaller 25-30 lb weight advantage over Marciano. Would you say they were the same size? Actually don't answer that, knowing you, you'd probably say Marciano's the bigger man.

I mean I can't blame you, I'm a ****ing riot. Bt my "brand of comedy" doesn't hold a candle to yours. One only needs to look at your poll choice to assess both your comedic value and value as a poster.

 

sharkey won the title by DQ? Are you sure about that? You might just want to check the record and discover Sharkey won the title on points.

It all depends on the knowledge one possesses of the era.

No more were fixed or suspect matchmaking than can be said of most other champions. Typically most records are padded up until a point. Great fighters too.

Percentage wise, Carnera had enough legit wins to match the majority of champions.

 

You're correct. My apologies. As I stated earlier, I've had 3 hours of sleep tonight, and my memory is fuzzy. He won the title in a VERY disputed SD.

• The split decision in favor of Sharkey was controversial. After the decision was announced, Schmeling's manager, Joe Jacobs, shouted into the radio microphone, "We wuz robbed!"
• Edward J. Neal of the Associated Press wrote that "to a wide majority of the critics, it seemed that Schmeling had earned the right to retain his crown, even if not by any great margin."
• The fight was broadcast on radio by NBC. The announcer was Graham McNamee, and he was joined by Charles Francis Coe, author of numerous fight stories. Their description of the fight indicated that Schmeling had won by a wide margin. The New York State Athletic Commission was so upset with the broadcast that they barred all but "boxing experts" from broadcasting descriptions of future matches. The commission defined as boxing experts "sports writers, referees or judges."

Source: Boxrec.

OK Perry/Houdini.

Carnera's record was so padded he could've been a mattress salesman.

Lol. Many of his fights were fixed as I've stated. The ones that weren't, didn't even come close to matching "the majority of champions".

 

This thing has been resurrected more times then Yamcha.

 

An autopsy revealed that Schaaf had meningitis, a swelling of the brain, and he was still recovering from a severe case of influenza when he entered the ring with Carnera. He also clearly entered the ringin a weakened state, and seemed to be fighting in slow motion from the opening bell.

 

he had not “clearly entered the ring in a weakened state”.

Officially, traces of undetectable spinal meningitis were present, microscopic traces, And during a long fight, together with the the punches from Carnera aggravated the virus, causing swelling in the brain. That was the real conclusion.

So Schaff entered the ring totally unknowing of a risk. it was just unfortunate that the dormant virus, left over from the influenza that he had recovered from weeks earlier, possibly even before another fight that schaff had won, was still present in the spinal cord and was aggravated during the fight with Carnera.

These were microscopic traces. Nobody is in a weakened state from microscopic traces. But he went into a fight where the virus was then aggravated.

 

These men were rated.

Schaaf

Loughran

Levinsky


Campolo

Uzcudun

Lasky

Neusel

Godfrey

Santa.

That’s not a bad resume for an average type champion is it?
On merit, primo was an average champion comparable to most short span champions like Sharkey, Jimmy Ellis, Leon Spinks, Tommy Burns, Ernie Terrell, John Tate, Buster Douglas, Jimmy Braddock, Ingemar Johansson even if he had two successful title defences. Each of these guys were champion at a time where argument could have been made that they were not necessarily the best in the world whilst champion.


On merit Carnera probably was not any worse than them.


If there was a worse type champion then it would be the kind of champion who did not deserve the decision that gained him the title in the first place or a champion awarded a title without winning it in the ring. I don’t think Primo was one of those since he knocked out Sharkey to gain the title.

 

Meningitis means swelling of the meninges (brain and spinal cord). There is such thing as traumatic meningitis.

 

I’m only repeating what was officially reported

 

Carnera had nowhere near the power Williams had, his body mechanics were awful.

 

Carnera just knocked out better fighters than Williams though.

 

It gets me everytime, when did this Carnera revision happen? The guy was rubbish.

 

Schaaf was visibly underperforming in that fight and it was noticed by many at ringside that covered him. I dug up many reports of this in the past. I am not a Carnera hater in fact I believe he was unjustly maligned often but I do not pose much stock in his win over Schaaf.