Better All-Around Fighter: Primo Carnera or Riddick Bowe?

And also

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/jack-sharkey-vs-johnny_b.652381/

 

FFS I remember that guy. Bro there is a thread where he talks about destroying treadmills with the force his legs produce running.
He was a great troll and everyone took the bait aha, bit like Janitor.

 

It was like the reverse of this thread -- the modern guys were the ones who jumped off the deep end. Not that I was around to see it live, more's the pity...

 

Lmao how did I miss this? Larping - the thread. This thread has also convinced me quite a few posters are actually the same person.

 

@GOAT Primo Carnera is actually legitimately @janitor I have a source.

 

You got me!

 

Firstly, we are going to have a couple of the same issues with Bowe and Carnera's top fives.

They both have a very good win on paper, that is potentially tarnished by the condition of the opponent going into the fight (Schaff and Holyfield 3).

They also both have a couple of very good wins on paper, that came by way of DQ (Stribling 1, Godfrey, Golotta 1 & 2).

Give careful thought to how you play these cards, because I will most assuredly play them the same way.

Having said that, I would probably have Carnera's top five like this:

1. Sharkey 2
2. Loughran
3. Schaff

After that you can make a case for half a dozen or more fights rounding out the top five.

4. Levinsky1
5. Neusell

Honorable mention:

Stribling1, Godfrey, Uzcdun1, Lasky, Levinnsky2, Uzcdun2, Smith

 

The honourable mentions are not featuring. Loughran? a LHW who stopped 14 guys. lol
Schaff? who was at the end of his career... and we have already talked about Sharkey. Levinsky an Walter where not even footnotes.
These five do not even make up for Bowes win over Prime Holyfield maybe not even the Holyfield of the third fight. I ask you and I want you to answer honestly If Fraziers only note worthy win was FOTC Ali would you say Carnera>Frazier? no.

Bowe- beat the best version of Holyfield, An undefeated Larry Donald who would not suffer another loss for 7 years (Not a great win, but better then Carneras top 4) A version of Bert Cooper who wen't the distance wth Mercer and went on to almost upset both Evander and Moorer (Moorer was closer) The best we saw of Tony Tubbs who I think would beat everyone Carnera beat. (Make a poll if you want more confirmation) Cotzer the best version of him to lose. An undefeated Herbie Hide who probably would done better then Carnera in his own era. Then there is the Bruce Seldon type of wins among other little trinket ones yo could dig up.

If Bowe has a resume thinner then a British teen model, then Carnera should have hung them up because his second best win in his career was against a LHW with 14 KOs in 90 wins. Bowe has the superior resume H2H. Do you want to challenge that?

 

Michael Moorer was a former light heavyweight, and he matched Bowe's best win.

Tommy Loughran's record at heavyweight, is probably better than anybody Bowe beat outside of Holyfield, and he was the #2 contender at the time of the fight.

Just embrace the fact that he is a former light heavyweight for a moment, and you will see that this is a very good win.

He was at the end of his career because Carnera killed him.

I don't think that he had been planning on retiring any time soon going into the fight, adn he would have ahd a future in teh divisdion even after the loss.

I think that when you look at some of these "footnotes", you will see that they were significant players in the division, over a few years.

We can discuss further on a case by case basis if you want.

Bowe's second best win is probably Herbie Hide on paper.

Not great for a second best win.

I am not sure whether Ring Magazine even had Larry Donald in their top ten when he fought Bowe, or Bert Cooper for that matter. If they did then they didn't make the end of year rankings in the adjacent years.

After that Carnera's cannon fodder increasingly looks a bit more credible than Bowe's cannon fodder.

 

Here is the thing MM was never a LHW. Tommy was a LHW at the end of the road with 14 stoppages in 90 wins he was no threat at all and Preems matchmakers knew it.
He was done by Carnera- like Sharkey, like Schaff who was losing to the likes of Baer and Unkown Winston a journeyman. Mind you even if he was at his best he was still less then Hide and Tubbs H2H. (Make a poll go ahead) We can also put a big * over Schaff lol dude was mortally injured going into the fight ffs.

Context is important with Donald and Cooper see the other post. The footnotes where footnotes-players who didn't do much of anything.

H2H- Answer don't avoid it.

Do you think anyone in Preems top 5 beat the Evander of 95? or Hide? even Tubbs?

And please which ones. specifically.

Second question. Answer it with a yes or a no.

If Frazier's only good win was FOTC Ali would you rate Smokin Joe bellow Preem just like Bowe?

 

So Frazier is summoned Pete Rademacher / Tim Witherspoon style out of obscurity to fight Ali, wins, and then rides off into the sunset to become a professional singer?

 

Pretty much.

 

Imagine if Frazier went 1-0 after the Olympics with FOTC Ali his only win. What would become of history I wonder.
"Rademacher Frazier" would be the most Mythical fighter ever.

 

I might actually be forced to rate a fighter who retires at 1-0 after thrashing a near-prime Ali below Carnera. But he'd be a head to head monster and clearly a better fighter than Carnera. Also one of the greatest "might have beens" in the division's history.

Then again, I might rank him above Carnera just for the sheer uniqueness of his accomplishment, and the audacity of doing a mic drop like that.

 

I think it would go down as the biggest Mic drop in combat sports history since the Fly champion DJ in the UFC got off his video game livestream crushed one of his most dangerous contenders and resumed playing.