Better All-Around Fighter: Primo Carnera or Riddick Bowe?

Gallico saw Carnera fight from the start he was present at the Salle Wagram the Velodrome, and the Cirque Hi'ver for several of his fights plus he saw him box in the US,therefore I'd say he is a good source regarding the authenticity or lack of it in Carnera's fights. Galllico also had several conversations with " Walter Good Time Charley Friedman" who had a piece of the Carnera pie. Friedman said this to Gallico later "Boy that was a lousy break for us
that you come walking into the Salle Wagram that night and see that the big guy can't punch! Just that night you hadda be there.We coulda got away with a lot more if you don't walk in there and write stories about how he can't punch".Carnera was fighting174lbs Moise Bouquillon whom he not only could not stop he couldn't even floor him.

I believe the Sharkey fight was a fix in that Sharkey went into the tank ,Sharkey's own wife thought so. The Baer fight was on the level who mentioned that fight?So were the Leroy Hayne's fights and the Louis fight ,all of which ended with Carnera as the loser having been stopped.

 

This won't wash Max Schmeling=[ foreign hvt rolled with wrong crew The Nazi party ,] won the award in 1930! R, you are in denial.

 

At least some common ground. Does it look like Carnera got "exposed" to you by Baer and Louis?

 

They didn't like his style. They wanted to see him break people in half and pick his teeth with their bones.
Their fantasies were subdued by the realities of the sweet science.

I never found him particularly exciting, entertaining, or whatever.
But the recent advent of SHWs has made me appreciate them much more.

And now when you look back at him fighting, what's not to like?
He has his awkward flaws like all SHWs, but is very effective.

 

I love how Sharkey throws the fight, by going out in the most brutal of fashions.

 

I won't deny any of this because I can't. However, If you take away the "exhibition" part of any fighters career you are only left with a small minority of legitimate fights. Even today.

It is true that Much of Carreras record, like many, many top fighters was really an exhibition tour. Without TV, the backers of a famous fighter could take a prospect on the road to all the small towns to give fans off the beaten track a chance to see these guys. That's all it really was. Making an appearance. So long as the customers went away saying they saw a top fighter it was worth doing. It didn't mean anything.

Check anyone's record. 80% of most well invested in careers represent Stiffs lined up to knock over. The idea was the name guy gets through it unscathed so he can "appear" in the next town and do it all over again next week.

The only difference with Carnera perhaps was the small town opponents had to be talked into facing a guy 100lb heavier. They were not matched to win to begin with, so what's the difference what goes on in a creep town? I bet if you scrutinised the part of any champions career where he scored a run of regular knockouts "on the road" there would be as much evidence if you looked hard enough that it was the exact same thing as what happened with carnera.

In the big towns Carnera, just like anybody else, had to win big fights though. Just like anyone else.

 

At least some common ground. Does it look like Carnera got "exposed" to you by Baer and Louis?[/QUOTE]
I think Carnera began to become exposed when he couldnt floor or hurt Loughran despite having an 84lbs weight advantage over him Loughran could not be bought.
Moderate heavyweight Leroy Haynes, fighting without the cuffs on, twice destroyed 29 years old Carnera that really puts his career in perspective imo.

 

Substitute this with," the most theatrical of fashions".

"Many speculated that Sharkey had been paid to take a dive. Though Jack denied this to his dying day, his own wife admitted her suspicions."

 

"Carnera's first American fight was against veteran New York fighter Clayton Peterson. Though "Big Boy" Peterson was renowned for his size, Carnera outweighed him by more than sixty pounds. Peterson managed to last one minute and ten seconds against the hulking European invader, though newspaper writers noticed that the New Yorker "showed no inclination to fight." Less than a week later a fighter named Elzear Rioux fell down six times in the opening round of his fight with Carnera in Chicago, stunning many in the crowd who swore they never saw Carnera land a single punch. After an investigation by the Illinois Commission, Carnera was cleared of any wrongdoing, though Rioux lost his boxing license. A string of similar knockouts followed, all either potential set-ups or against no-hope opponents who were outweighed by as much as seventy-five pounds. In a period of just four months, Carnera appeared in the ring sixteen times, winning every one of those bouts by the short route.

Meanwhile, Friedman backed the Carnera spectacle with the most outrageous promotional fanfare even given to a fighter. The focus, of course, wasn't so much on Carnera's prowess in the ring as it was on his huge muscular frame. Though other fighters may have accomplished more as consummate professionals, they failed to draw the huge crowds Carnera drew as a "freak show" of the sport. Before long, big name fighters began calling out Carnera in hopes of sharing some of the big purses he brought in. The earliest among these was a burly, hard-hitting African American fighter by the name of George Godfrey. A legitimate top ten contender, Godfrey was coming off of a streak of four consecutive knockout victories. On June 23, 1930, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Godfrey looked well on his way of adding Carnera to his list of victims, when the referee mysteriously disqualified him in the fifth round. A riot broke out amid the crowd of 35,000 in the arena, with accusations of fakery flying."

 

Primo was not a hoax.

He did as well against Joe Louis as Max Baer did.

Ernie Shcaff had to have been legitimately beaten by him. And how about other wins like the one over Walter Neusel and Paulino Uzcudun? Jim Maloney? King Levinsky? Don Mckorkindale, Art Laskey? Those guys were all headlining main event fighters.

 

" Of course most of those "allegations" are falsehoods that have never been proven to be true. Ring Magazine Editor/Publisher Nat Fleischer thought Carnera was a talented fighter and had Carnera ranked in the top ten contenders list years before and after he won the title. Nat Fleischer was certainly an authority to determine if Carnera was a real fighter or not. Even Jack Dempsey who was ringside at many of Carnera's fight never saw anything that took place in the ring that was not on the level. Regardless of what biased writers state about Carnera's career decades after he laced up the gloves, there is no record of anyone or opponent declaring that a fight was fixed, or that an opponent took a dive. Carnera was a sharp fighter who not only beat quality opponents, but was a fighting champion that defended his laurels two times against top contenders.

Carnera's reputation has been wrongly hurt by the imagination of writers who were never ringside for any of Carnera's fights. Those that actually covered the great fighter never questioned any legitimacy of his wins. His career should be re-evaluated fairly and his recognition as a great heavyweight should be restored. He should have been inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame, instead of fighters like Jake LaMotta who actually admitted to throwing a fight."

 

Baer quit against Louis.
Schaff was suffering the after affects of a particularly bad attack of influenza and should not have been anywhere near a boxing ring.
Jim Maloney was a B level fighter.
So was McCorkindale, he won 29 of his 50 fights.
Lasky had just 18 fights had never beaten anyone of even remote standing, had recently lost to Dick Daniels 19-8-0 and drawn with Marion Matuszack 2-0-4.
Levinsky who lost a disputed split decison to Carnera had won just 1 of his last 6 fights. Below is awrite up of the Neusel fight in which the German quit.
"Primo Carnera, trying for a comeback, emerged from the smoky haze of MSG last night with a TKO victory over Walter Neusel, the blond German heavyweight. Refusing to be floored under a barrage of ponderous, sweeping lefts, Neusel threw up his hands and quit in the 4th round after Carnera inflicted a deep cut over his eye with a massive flying elbow. As blood spurted from the cut, Neusel's seconds jumped into the ring with a towel, but he beat them to the draw, walking away from the grimacing Carnera to his corner."


Below is a write up of the Carnera v Chevalier fight
"Those sitting in Chevaliers corner claim that Perry, the second, wanted to throw the towel in as early as the second round when Chevalier was out-boxing the giant but was deterred by a fan who threatened to shoot him if he stopped the fight. But in the sixth, when the self appointed guardian of the second was yelling for the Negro to win the fight, Perry fired the towel over the ropes. When the irate fan realized what had happened he started a two fisted attack on Perry and gave him a beating." � Bob Shand, Oakland Tribune" Carnera's purse was withheld.

 

Paul Gallico was ringside for a lot of Carnera's fights ,nice try though! Why didn't Fleischer award Carnera with The Fighter Of The Year Award in1933 as was customary when a new Heavyweight champion was crowned?
Carnera never threw a fight but many of his opponents threw their fights against him!" Many reporters who witnessed Carnera's fights from ringside questioned the legitimacy of his victories WTF are you talking about! Sharkey himself said a lot of Carnera's fights were "questionable" ."I wont say what I should say" Sharkey in a taped interview.

" Carnera had nothing" Joe Louis.

 

They being Nat Fleischer who personally picked the recipient for Fighter Of The Year!lol

 

Nat Fleicher outstrips Galico on boxing a thousand times over.