Better All-Around Fighter: Primo Carnera or Riddick Bowe?

Why is it me who has to give it up?

There are two people arguing!

 

I think that we both need to choose which hill to die on here.

You criticize Carnera for doing things which not every coach would agree to be universally bad, like pushing punches.

Whether you like it or not, there are ongoing debates on these issues.

You also criticize him for doing some things that even the best fighters can do in the heat of the moment, such as non textbook footwork.

Are you perhaps hanging too much on these variables, and giving Bowe too much of a pass for his complete failure to maintain range?

If you did that then I could counter it by showing fights where he did not maintain range, even when he was on the wrong end of a beating.

Still I would be interested to know which fights you would hold up as showcasing his outfighting abilities?

It is and it isn't.

I don't consider Muhammad Al or Harry Greb to have been very technically correct, but results are results.

OK so if I made you Primo Carnera's trainer, what would you do to improve him?

How would you get another 10% out of him?

 

Oh my ****ing god it's been 2 years and 95 pages just let it go

 

Which would exactly be the case, given his "natural physical talent", at least on the physical base regarding reach and trimmed weight. Never trained any fighters too (beside explaining my other half some amateur basics I´ve learned), but I´m pretty sure they´d try him capitalize on his reach and footwork throwing the jab. So #1 would be his footwork on the backfoot, keeping useful distance while beeing balanced. Carnera simply had the biggest problem in coordination beeing ponderous and couldn´t use his physical attributes.

Its the other way around janitor asserts: A technical problem of coordination, rather than his chin (good recuperative abilities) or punching power (another problem of technique).

 

It has to be Carnera. Better jab (came at a downward angle, difficult to counter), better timing (unique rhythm), better sense of distance/range (big eyes/large vision), better in-fighting (Latin-Bulgarian wrestling pedigree), and better footwork (Italian folk dancing). Carnera also seemed to punch harder than Bowe. He would barely touch his opponents and they would go out like a light. Crazy. Carnera's footwork is a mystery. Some call it revolutionary, others simply call it excellent. Carnera was very light on his feet. The way he used to shuffle forward/backward while he jabbed was breathtaking. I am honestly surprised every time Carnera's name is brought up, no one mentions his speed. I have to watch Carnera-Baer at x0.5 because I keep missing that whip-like jab. I can't tell if it lands at normal speed. The man had faaasssttt hands.

He was also a very explosive fighter. His unique style of attacking suddenly and swiftly inspired sportswriters to coin the term "coup de main". This one is a bit controversial though. Many believe the term was actually coined and minted long before Carnera's ascension. His signature move: feint - jab falls short - feint - feint falls short - feint - jab - clinch was a thing of beauty. It was impossible to time and counter. It took Baer 11 rounds to adjust. And Carnera fought Baer with an overloaded bladder. I've always believed empty-bladder Carnera would've starched Baer in 3. MSG toilets couldn't hold what Carnera had to offer. At least not in 1934. Carnera was already seen as a freak, a spill at MSG would've destroyed his image (janitors were already sick of him). Carnera was an insecure person and he let his fear control him that night. What's a tinkle without a sprinkle eh?

Gene Tunney attended one of Carnera's non-title bouts. He was so moved by what he saw, he left after 3 rounds. Later that night, Tunney was heard saying "I thank the lord I was born in 1897, not 1907". The quote is obviously open to interpretation. (Thomas Hoser)

Lastly, I met Lennox Lewis a few years back. We were talking about the great heavyweight champions of the past. I was inclined to ask about Primo but he brought it up first. When Lennox first teamed up with Manny, Manny advised Lennox to study Carnera. Most people don't know that Lennox was modelled after the great Primo Carnera. I was shocked myself when I heard that. Lennox went as far as saying "Ali was great but he was great for a mere mortal. How does a mere mortal compare to Primo, that I don't know". We laughed about it but deep down I was ashamed I had mocked and ridiculed such a great fighter for so long. Now you ask this insulting question comparing Carnera to Riddick Bowe. A man who couldn't defend his nuts was a better overall fighter than Carnera? **** off.

 

More pressing matches such as God vs Primo instead of Primo vs the man that beat a 205lbs "Heavyweight" pfft

 

Because you are attempting to argue the inarguable!

 

NB Sharkey was 4lbs lighter than he had been in his previous fight,his title winning effort against Schmeling a year earlier,and a lb lighter than he had been for the first Carnera fight.

 

But that's clearly his "thing".

He's obviously so full of himself, that he thinks he can argue his way out of any situation - and sound clever in doing so. As long as you guys keep feeding him, he will continue with his nonsense.

 

*Orgasmic shudder*

 

It has risen.

 

You should be banned.