Better Career: Marciano or Ali pre-Exile?

When Marciano retired on April 27, 1956 at 49-0 with 43 KO's....Liston was 14-1 and was in jail...Sonny didn't fight again until January 1958...

 

I'd say Marciano, and with a little room to spare. Reason being, at that level, it's harder to go 49-0 than 29-0, it just simply is. Anything can happen, and hiccups are very easy at some point, but less likely with 29 fights than 49, and thus more impressive. Then when you factor in, Liston, imo, wasn't even great by that point, let alone Prime. That win is what makes it relatively close, if that win is viewed as okay, coupled with the disparity in W's and L's, it puts it firmly in Marciano's favor for me.

 

Fair point.

 

I can't believe you've lasted this long. Standards are slipping.

 

I've lasted this long cause I don't look at things through rose tinted fanboy glasses, like you do.
Ali's wins over Liston were not that impressive, given the circumstances they happened in.
Same goes for Marciano's win over Louis

 

Tick, tick, tick, tick............

 

Nobody said Liston was shot, I said he was older than stated.
After he won the title, Liston was living the life of a middle aged rich man, drinking, partying and playing golf.
He underestimated Ali and did not prepare properly for their first fight.
He took a dive in the second.

These are facts, not revisionism.

 

Im Italian American and love Marciano but guys Ali was in a different class. He would have cut Marciano to ribbons. 20 pound weigh advantage 4 in height 13 reach and he was much faster hands and feet and much more skilled boxer. Toughness intangibles Ali proved he was second to none. This is a no contest. Doesn't mean Marciano wasnt incredible inspiration for what he accomplished but this is moving on to a modern era with Ali.

 

Those fights were over a 3 year period, and lasted a total of 11 minutes, an average of just over 1 round a year That's hardly adequate preparation for the greatest of all time. On top of that, he was already in his mid-30s, and went into the bout with a recorded shoulder injury.

Their are numerous reports both before and after the fight citing Liston's poor preparation and increased drinking. I could bring them up if you'd like.

The caliber of these opponents for the most part were not that good and only Johnson and Lincoln were ranked. Still impressive nonetheless, and In any case, nobody is saying Liston was hopelessly washed up, just past prime, and their is plenty of evidence to support this.

I forgot, you're the one who called " one of the top heavyweights of that era.". Now I remember why I stopped taking you seriously.

Could you please put fourth some evidence that Wepner was a "solid contender" let alone "one of the top heavyweights of that era"?..... Nothing?

OK Could you at least give me ONE notable win he scored?

This sentence (and the one following it to a lesser extent) is pretty much the definition of intellectual dishonesty.

Again, that caliber of Liston's post Ali opponents were not excellent for the most part, and only 2 of them were rated.

Also it's pretty ironic and hypocritical you insist Liston was was still prime when he faced Ali, because of his post-Ali career, while simultaneously claiming the Louis, Walcott, Moore, and Charles were "corpses" despite the latter 2 (particularly Moore) having far batter post-loss careers.

Walcott had also just won the world heavyweight championship 2 fights prior, and was said to put in a career best performance against Marciano despite being 38.

Louis was also the #1 contender on a 9 fight win streak which included wins over multiple contenders.

Your self proclaimed "corpse" Charles at the time of his fight with Marciano was actually younger than Liston was against Ali.

Let's at least TRY to be fair and honest.

 

What the **** does this have to do with anything?

 

Floyd was 27 and 28 when he lost to Liston, Louis was 37 and Walcott 38, I think, but you definitely have a point that Liston's career trajectory much more correlates with Ali having his number than he suddenly becoming past it in early '64.

 

A lot of misleading things here. Louis was 37 on an 8 fight win streak against some decent but not great competition.

Walcott was champion lol coming off two wins over Charles. And was 38.

Charles was coming off two excellent wins before losing to Marciano. Marciano affectively ended his career.

you neglected to mention Moore, Layne, Matthews, for good reason.

You’re right Liston was great. I don’t know why others argue that point.

 

Pre fight TV Broadcast to Clay Liston I Louis doing color commentary said Liston was on his way to being the greatest heavyweight champ of all time. Pull it up on the internet. Joe Walcott referee for Liston Ali II said Ali was clearly best heavyweight he ever saw. Said he could beat Dempsey, Louis Marciano, Charles or himself.