Better Chance Against Tyson Fury: Jack DEMPSEY or Joe LOUIS?

What do you mean by "stacking his gloves"?

 

What great giants did they overcome to earn that title?

 

Might be talking about how Jack supposedly held a rail in his hand or something for Willard?

 

Plenty of times? Like two?

 

Tell me how Dempsey beats Fury, I’d genuinely love to hear it, he would either be toyed with at range and barely land a punch or he’d be leaned all over, mauled and stopped. Can you guys not think objectively, athletes from 1920 are not the same as in 2020, especially when they’re 80 pounds heavier than the 1920 guy. If Fury can take Wilders power I’m pretty certain he can take a smack from Dempsey, cop on to yourselves

 

I didn't say Dempsey would beat Fury. Now can you mention all these KDs Dempsey suffered against guys who wouldn't be even CW today?

 

Actually, I’ve just started in on Adam Pollack’s Dempsey book vol 1 (loving it!) - there have already been several early career KDs referenced - JD being around 19/20 yo - still growing into himself and possibly underfed at times at any rate. Factor in also a haphazard fighting schedule - taking what he can get even with little preparation time between fights.

Funny thing, apparently in his BIO, JD attests to several early career KDs which aren’t actually corroborated by same day/next day newspaper reports - = JD wasn’t KD’d as he claimed. Perhaps JD was confused or simply talking up the see saw nature of some of his early career battles.

Otherwise, during his reign I count 3 KDs, 1 by Tunney and 2 x Firpo - Besides being knocked out of the ring at the Polo Grounds - JD suffered a flash KD within seconds of opening bell when he rushed across the ring only to be caught by a counter right hand from Firpo.

No stake in the debate or attempt to feed the arguments on either side - just some interesting FYI points.

 

It could be right that he had some early KDs when he was a teenager who didn't even grow HW body yet. We all know he got knocked out by Flynn a bit later.

As you said though, we can count three KDs during his reign, along with Flynn stoppage. Considering that Firpo certainly was bigger than "not even CW by modern standards", it looks like we have 2 100% verified KDs during his career, with possible existance of some when he wasn't full-time pro boxer. Far from "plenty of times" though.

 

I’m still reading JD’s earlier days, maybe I should start tallying the KD count.

I should’ve mentioned the Flynn bout also but assumed that it’s common knowledge - but the varied takes on the finer details aren’t in complete agreement.

He was def. KD’d twice by Firpo, def. not a CW himself, but it’s 3 x 100% KDs during his title reign.

I’ve mentioned before how annoying the edits are on the old films - the same edited films circulate more than the orig. raw footage. It’s not like we have heaps of the old films anyway - let us see everything we’ve got! Until Ken Burns UNFORGIVABLE BLACKNESS - I’d never seen the 2 X first round KDs of Burns - I had only read about them.

As it pertains to Dempsey vs Firpo, the aspect ratio is screwed in many versions, meaning the framing doesn’t include the early KD - but there are cleaner, more orig. versions which contain clear vision of JD being KD’d shortly after opening bell.

 

Yeah, it's a shame that most old fights are incomplete. Could you find the clear version of Firpo vs Dempsey with visible first KD?

I didn't include Firpo into that conversation, because he was huge - 6'3 and 217 lbs in an era without PEDs and any other supplements. He was basically the size of modern HW, often coming into the ring above 220 lbs.

 

Sure, we can critique Firpo’s skills to some extent but he was a legit big, strong, powerful and rugged brute and that can count for something in any era.

Looking at his record his chin didn’t seem too bad. Was KO’d in 1 in a very early career fight (KD’d 4 times) and later stopped when well beyond prime in 1936 by Godoy. Otherwise I know he was KD’d by Wills in the second round.

We should cut JD some slack though, two years inactive and an outer ring life style lending to some substantive decline if not severe rust at the very least. Still, I can’t ignore the power on display and Dempsey found better form over the short period the fight lasted.

The Firpo match wasn’t a pristine exhibition of boxing as per the intentions of the MOQ but no mistaking the single swish shots that put the Wild Bull down rather easily and emphatically. . Dempsey’s hook was really something but he had serious power in both hands. Yes, Jack hovered but still no mean feat bouncing a guy like Firpo up and down as Jack did.

Anyway, here’s a nice colourised version in which the KD can be clearly seen - I can’t recall for sure, but the KD might’ve been described in the contemporary newspaper reports - I could maybe find something but time is the enemy, LOL,

This content is protected

 

It DOES matter that you are accurate-at least not shortchanging the sizes of those you are skeptical of being able to win or do or withstand whatever.
Because folks will not trust your honesty or whether you are biased & fair if you do this.

I generally agree with your conclusions about the effect of size differences.
However it is not insane that Dempsey might well avoid being put on the canvas-especially by a pre-Kronk Fury.
Others have cited how well Cunningham & other relatively small guys did.
Although sure I pick Fury over Dempsey.

 

an Elite HW,
and the Two of them ATG HW's

verse a 2cd Rate Fighter in a New Division for Giants - the S-HW Division.

Sorry, apples & oranges.

 

Hagler`s body was far more defined than Marciano`s and he had a longer reach, his waist was much thinner too.

 

Sure Mark, but that has nothing to do with my point of the relative amount of distortion involved in claiming Hagler weighed 150 (like saying Marciano (& we are talking about prime, not young & developing) weighed 180 lbs.