Better chin: Duran or Leonard?

While I agree that Ray had an excellent chin at 147, he was also hyper-vigilant in their first bout that he not get caught like Cuevas and Shields. [Yes, Randy was stopped by butt inflicted cuts, but Tommy also buckled him a number of times with solid rights in a match Ray supplied color commentary for.] Hearns certainly tested SRL's chin plenty, but Tommy never inflicted the kind of flush stunner Duran nailed Ray with in Montreal. If Hearns had, SRL would have dropped from it, or at least been very seriously buckled and staggered.

Rating Duran's chin on the basis of Hearns is, I think, akin to rating that of Gene Fullmer's on the basis of SRR II, or SRL's himself on the basis of Norris, Camacho and Howard [all coming off protracted layoffs]. It's always been my contention that Duran was an overconfident party animal after Hagler and ill prepared for the return of the long dormant Hit Man persona that Tommy had put in mothballs two years prior for his challenge of Hearns. From my perspective, that was lightning in a bottle. Tommy would not have done that to him in a WW unification bout after Montreal, nor, very possibly, could he have done that to the well prepared Duran of the Barkley master class.

For me, Montreal is crucial here, because both were primed and ready, each took the best shots from the other, and only one was hurt. It wasn't Duran.

Although Ray got wobbled by Fireball Rodriguez, that was only his second bout, so I can dismiss that one. But Kalule, not noted for his power, did stun SRL with his right hooks in round seven. With both Duran and Ray in top condition [which SRL ALWAYS was, while Roberto was sporadically so after 135], I've no doubt Duran comes out on top in this comparison. [And if Ray was as negligent and indifferent in his preparation as El Cholo often was above LW, this wouldn't even be a topic for discussing. Bad training would have cost SRL a great deal more in punch resistance than Duran.]

Tommy took away the chin of Cuevas in Detroit, but failed to take Roberto's chin away. Duran successfully recovered from a hammering he never should have been able to rebound from. [As Hearns himself did after Hagler.] Once Ray's punch resistance subsided though at the higher weights, it seemed a permanent decline in chin quality, although I did have the sense he would have again rallied in the championship rounds to halt Tommy a second time if not restricted to the 12 round limit. [I believe this is why SRL so readily admits Hearns won their rematch. In his own mind, he knows he would have repeated the first result with three more rounds to work with. He benefited from a shorter distance against Hagler, then lost that advantage himself in Hearns II. Is what it is.]

 

It's borderline ******ed to use hearns waxing of Duran as a tesitment of his chin... Actually.. it's ******ed.

 

Pretty easy.

Duran had over 100 fights and went down a few times. Leonard had about 40 fights and I believe went down 6 or 7 times. Duran also got hit more as he slowed down in his 30s and 40s.

Duran had the better chin.

 

If anything it supports what a great chin he had. Watch it again, he was hit with perhaps the best punch Hearns has ever thrown and shortly after the knock out he started to get up. Hell the punch that Pac was hit with by JMM wasn't anywhere near as hard and he went down like he was shot. He was also hit cleanly when he fought Moore and Barkley threw some truly wicked punches in the fight they had, especially in the first few rounds.

 

Again, it happened before a huge audience, a day before Duran turned 33, 20 pounds above his best weight, in a match Tommy may well have peaked for.

For me, Hearns-Duran could be compared to Hurricane Carter TKO 2 Emile Griffith, Hatchetman Sheppard KO 1 Maxim II [which Joey avenged in their rubber match], Fuji TKO 2 Lopopolo, or Loughran's TKO losses to Sharkey and Hamas [both later avenged by the Philly Phantom]. I consider Hearns-Duran to be an anomalous outcome. Seven knockdowns in Ray last seven bouts, after his legs could no longer help him consistently avoid getting hit, was a career ending pattern which showed no signs of reversing.

When SRL retired following Camacho, he was nearly a decade younger than Roberto was for his rematch with Hector. [Again, it bears repeating that El Cholo did NOT leave competition because his chin deserted him, or his legs failed. He was compelled to quit because of injuries incurred in a car accident. No boxer forced him into retirement. He was preparing to compete into his 50s.]

 

What is it with you Duran apologists? Age and weight is a reasonable enough excuse, but you cultists just can't leave it at that, can you? Not only must he be a decrepit old man, not only must he be 300 pounds above his peak weight, but he also has to be totally ill-prepared when it comes to fighting elite fighters. It's almost impossible for your kind to give any sort of credit to the guys Duran loses to, because doing that would force you to acknowledge that your demi-god isn't quite as invincible as you'd like to wish he was.

Anybody labelling ten ounce gloves as being "pillows" quite clearly has never been inside of a ring and actually been on the receiving end of one of those punches. The notion that a mere two ounces somehow cushions a blow is ******ed.