Better counterpuncher: James Toney or Juan Manuel Marquez

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Flo_Raiden, Mar 9, 2018.



  1. Flo_Raiden

    Flo_Raiden Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Both were known to be tremendous counter puncher, particularly the right hand counter. They also threw punches in combos, had great chins, and were willing to take a punch to land their own punches in return, although their styles were very different.

    Who do you think was the better counter puncher in your opinion?
     
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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  3. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    Toney was a much, much better counterpuncher imo.
     
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  4. Flo_Raiden

    Flo_Raiden Boxing Addict Full Member

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  5. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    Was about to write "Toney, and it's not even close" before I saw that I already commented last year.
     
  6. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Marquez and it’s really not even close
     
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  7. ChrisJS

    ChrisJS Active Member Full Member

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    Marquez for sure. Both great counter punchers though.
     
  8. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Toney had more eye catching counters, and I think more naturally talented at it... but Marquez was more workman like with his and took less hits to lands his own counters.
     
  9. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    I thought Marquez actually took more hits to land his counters. Marquez sometimes struggled early in his fights (sometimes eating some pretty big punches) because it took him much longer to get his opponents' timing and tendencies down. I also don't think his reflexes weren't as good as Toney's, and he left himself exposed more often.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
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  10. Xplosive

    Xplosive Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Are you saying that Marquez was better defensively than Toney?

    LMAO.
     
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  11. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Good points, but Toney imo had a tendency to take bigger shots and put himself in more harms way in the pocket, but got bailed out because of his chin and shoulder roll. I agree that Marquez took longer to get on a roll, which is why Toney I believe Toney has more natural talent for it, while Marquez is more workman like. I feel like Toney sometimes was looking for that huge counter shot, and that cost him some of the pace Marquez continued at for longer. Good points though.
     
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  12. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Better defensively no, Toney was clearly more talented in that regard. But I feel like Toney stayed in the pocket too much and put himself in line for bigger shots knowing his chin could take it.
     
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  13. Tramell

    Tramell Active Member Full Member

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    I'm not sure counterpunching is singular in using it.

    Toney's counter's were IMO always based on him standing at an angle, never straight in front of his opponent, allowing him to bend over, turn or pivot, then he counters.

    JMM stood straight in front of his foes be it Pac, Juan Diaz and used lateral movement, but also bobbed under shots. Often he would get caught, but countered effectively when hit.

    Because he never wavered in weight he had better longevity, whereas Toney didn't always look countering Nunn landed a bit, Tiberi also nullified his countering.

    I think they were both good countering in their own separate ways.
     
  14. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I can see your point. It is difficult to compare as they both have different styles. Toney was a master counter puncher in the pocket.
     
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  15. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    ^this. Toney waa a different type of counter puncher. He liked to smother guys and set up big body shots, hooks, and uppercuts wearing them down with rough house tactics and draining their stamina. His opponents would be frustrated because Toney's iron chin and defense meant they couldn't really keep him from gettint in close and doing what he felt like doing. And if Toney couldn't establish a phone booth fight or was hurt, he could get on the back foot and use his jab while slipping and fighting on the outside to embarrass you. He must have been an extremely frustrating opponent to face in the ring.

    Marquez was more of a traditional boxer who relied on solid fundamentals and preferred staying at mid range. His best shots were straight punches (unlike toney who pivoted and used his hips and shoulders for power). Marquez lined you up for one big shot after studying your habits while toney would dodge by centimeters and tag you every round any chance he got.

    I would have to say toney was the better
     
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