Better defense: Johnson or Dempsey

rico!!! and yes, johnson clinched like a mother****er but he also parried like a cocksucker

 

Another thing is I wouldn't exactly call just throwing your head out of the way of punches or moving your harms and gloves in front of you to stop them or moving your feet to displace where your body mass is to a new position out of range of a shot as any kind of defence either. I mean, once you describe it, it seems a little bit, I don't know, denatured, or hircine, or even opulent. But not a defence of any kind for anything.

 

He did a lot more than that.

He was a master of making people miss with subtle movments, and glove blocking.

To compare him even theoreticaly to John Ruiz, is a gross insult.

 

yes and no

johnson grabbed, so did ruiz. ruiz gets **** on CONSTANTLY but he's a guy that took one or two skills and parlayed that into a couple of alphabet reign in a mediocre era. considering he had NOTHING else but his mastery of the jab and grab and an occasional right hand, that's remarkable

and he did what johnson did but made a career out of it

 

They both grabbed, but that is wheer the similarity ends.

One obvious difference based on the limited film that we have, is that Johnson only grabbed when he had the weight advantage.

He only did it when it was a gift.

 

Ruiz had a better jab

 

Jonhson practically invented the defence thats used today by the likes of Mayweather.

 

but do you think that makes it better? both grabbed, grabbed well and grabbed often.

i really don't see how grabbing only smaller opponents makes it better. ruiz grabbed to compensate for SIGNIFICANTLY lesser skills yet remained at the top of his division for near 5 years.

if you look at footage of both, they grab VERY similarly in frequency and appearance. johnson is better and held in higher regard but i don't hold him randomly seperate from ruiz in this technique.

 

Hircine? atsch



The word you're looking for is 'goatish.'

 

Shyeah, right. Like Johnson or Dempsey is in the running for GOAT.

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Am I the woman in that gif or the goatish looking chap?

 

Thier defenses were different. Dempsey tucked his shoulder behind his chin and employed a crouch with a bob and weave while johnson relied on the fencers stance and glove bocking with subtle shifts in position. Drop both men in the HW division of the 60's and 70's and I think Dempsey would be more effective defensively. Johnson thrived in the one and two punch era so he could afford to use the defense that he did. I think it would be problematic in the future era's where the jab and combination puching were more evident. Dempseys bob and weave would be more effective. leaning straight back with your hands down might be trouble against big jabbers like Ali, Liston and Holmes as well as Lewis. Especially when the jabs came in bunches followed by right hands and left hooks. I could see dempsey having more success bobbing under a shot and countering with a hook. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to be a question of style against other styles rather than who had the better defense.

 

You have said it yourself.

Ruiz grabbed to compensate for a significantly lesser skillset, even if his opponent was bigger than him.

Johsno used clinching to tire out physicaly weaker opponents, but abandoned it against people who had a physical advantage.

For Johnson it was one tool in his defensive arsenal which was used to prosecute the fight, while for Ruiz it was virtualy the only tool in his defensive arsenal and was used to prevent a fight taking place.

I realy wouldn't compare them on any level to be honest.

 

Both used it as a defence on the inside, Johnson was a better in fighter of the 2 though