Better defense: Pacquiao or JMM

Towards the end of his career he became a more aggressive fighter. But the entirety of his prime he was either unwilling or unable to take the lead.

FMJ at 147 was exclusively a counter puncher.

At the lower weights I thought he able to take the lead much better.

 

Another thing JMM and Mayweather had in common — both needed roids to beat Pacquiao (though the latter didn't).

 

Mayweather walked down Zab Judah and Shane Mosley.

 

You're right he showed a bit more proactiveness there.

 

Mosley fight was crazy. Floyd walked him down and threw him around in the clinches like a rag doll. Floyd on some crazy juice that fight.

 

Mosley is a verifiable roidhead. One of the most juiced nonheavies ever, along with Fernando Vargas.

 

Marquez vs John Scorecard

R1 10-9 John Slight edge to John in punches but these guys both look elite and evenly matched. Also, I’d give John the ring generalship points for leading more, while Marquez tried to counter. Good upper body and head movement from both.

R2 10-9 Marquez Marquez is landing a lot more now and with serious bad intentions. He’s walking forward flat footed committing to shots and throwing bombs. It almost looked like he was trying to get John out of there that round. He seriously wobbled John at the beginning and end; so John decided to give him some room.

R3 10-9 Marquez Marquez is fighting with an intensity I’ve rarely seen him exhibit outside of a Pacquiao fight. He’s being aggressive coming, forward, throwing hard. I loved the beginning of the round when they were both bouncing with energy, up on their toes, feinting, moving their arms, but John didn’t get much done this round. He was content to try to snipe with quick little jabs, which Marquez would counter over with powerful combinations.

R4 10-9 Marquez Marquez won all but one of their exchanges this round. This is a phenomenal fight. Both guys are operating at such a high level. Chris John has technique like Pongsaklek Wonjongkam or Marquez himself. Too bad Marquez is just a bit better and seems to be a bit stronger. If Marquez punches are .38s Johns are only .22s. But what style they both have! And good energy, good pacing.

R5 10-9 John Giving the close round to John for mercy’s sake. This fight is a treat. It’s like watching a guy fight in a mirror they are so close in technique and physical attributes.

R6 10-9 John What a fantastic round. John is out Marquezing Marquez, doing all the things Marquez did to Pacquiao. He’s staying out of reach timing him as he comes in, doing little steps back. Marquez lunges in with a big hook and Chris pops him lightly with a jab and hops out of range again.

R7 10-9 John Marquez knew he hurt John in that second and third round so now he’s trying to keep with it after John’s made some adjustments. Roughly even, perhaps a slight edge to John this round in terms of landed punches. Definite edge in ring generalship despite Marquez getting the edge in aggressiveness.

I can’t understand why John never entered the pound for pound lists. He’s got the talent of Wonjongkam or Calderon. He had a better record than Caballero. Hell, he had a better record than Ricardo Lopez with this win. 18 defenses, 48-0-3, undefeated until his final fight. He surely deserved p4p fame more than Dawson, Williams, Guerrero, or Broner. Ring screwed Valero too.

R8 10-9 Marquez Marquez trying to reset and be less aggressive. Ref warns Marquez for the second time for low blows, although neither looked severe or intentional. Marquez lands a hard combination upstairs. John lands a similar one with no power at all seconds later. Good punch to the ribs by Marquez. Good body head by Marquez. He’s got John missing. Time is called at the end of the round to cut a piece of tape from Marquez’ glove. No, to wrap more around it. These two are magnificent.

R9 10-9 Marquez Good shot to the body by John. Some of John’s footwork reminds me of Joey Maxim. This is good oldschool technical boxing. Oof, Marquez comes bulling in and slams a few to John’s head. John falls back into the corner hunched over then comes bouncing back. Marquez tries a flurry of body shots mostly blocked. That smooth economy of motion reminds me of Antonio Cervantes now. Marquez lands to the head, tries again but gets blocked by a shoulder. Good old fashioned form. Lot of lateral movement side to side from John, then he goes hard twice to the body of Marquez. Marquez comes after him, rushing, but ineffectual. He’s got a lot of mustard on these punches. Even the ones John blocks you can tell he’s feeling them.

R10 10-9 John Marquez landed a low punch below the belt line on John as John was leaping back. Technically a low blow but it barely touched him. The ref penalizes Marquez a point. Oh, come on. Marquez strays low again. Looked like he tried to stop it before contact so it didn’t have anything on it but damnit man. You just lost a point seconds ago. What dumbass is letting the clock run? Ooh, Marquez clipped him on the jaw. John gives him back a little tit for tat. Would have been a slight Marquez round if it weren’t for that lowblow. Two point swing the other way now.

R11 10-7 John I don’t believe it. Marquez just lost two more points for hitting John in the middle of his belt. No wonder he lost this fight. Barely low. Above the cup. Although in the previous round he’d hit John on the thigh. If I were Nacho I’d tell him to just punch upstairs. Now, John complains that Marquez is hitting him in the back of the head, after he just did that to Marquez. He doesn’t want Marquez to be able to hit him anywhere. Smart, but sneaky. Marquez is frustrated, slinging haymakers. John pops him on either side of his face. Marquez bull rushes gets nowhere. They reset.

R12 10-9 John They shake hands in the center of the ring. John cuffs Marquez on the side of the head with a left hook. Punch picked off. Punch. One got through. Marquez drilled him with a straight right down the center. Marquez knows it’s now or never and he’s letting it all hang out. John finds the middle of the ring slippery, circles out. Marquez charges and John puts him in a headlock. John lands a left to the head. Marquez rushes and misses as John moves back out of range. John jabs, misses. Both changing levels. John gets the better of an exchange. John backing up Marquez missing.

115-111 for Chris John

 

Which tells you the level of juiced that Floyd was. Floyd tossed him around like he was 90 pounds.

 

Nice. I had John winning as well.

 

Pacquiao got ktfo 3 times Marquez 0

 

can't argue with that