Better fight: Ali-Norton II or Ali-Frazier II?

Definitely Ali-Norton II. That was a fight. Ali didn’t fight Frazier. He spoiled. It was ugly & dishonourable.

 

Ali vs Norton 2
Ali in both fights was well prepared, but in the rematch against Frazier, there was too much clinching and not enough boxing.

 

Ali vs Norton 2 by a considerable amount clean action all the way no clinching Ali was at his sharpest in the 70s.

Ali vs Frazier 2 had too much clinching for my liking I've never rewatched it.

 

Thank god that in their third fight, they didn't allow Ali to clinch, and we got to see one of the best fights.

 

Norton by a mile for me. Ali’s squelching of Frazier is hard to watch.

Against Frazier, Ali fought a percentage fight, win ugly if need be - with his view obviously looking beyond and toward Foreman, mindful to ensure no hiccups along the way.

For both fights, Ali’s recapture of his 60s trim was impressive.

He was about 212 1/2 a piece for both fights - dancing weight.

Came in that bit heavier for Foreman - which in hindsight might’ve clued people in that Ali wasn’t looking to move as much and punch with more purpose.

Not as cut as he was for the Norton and Frazier rematches but looking that much bigger and thicker in the chest, arms and shoulders.

He always chopped wood but I think he accented even more so on the practice for the Foreman fight.

Terrific exercise actually and one that Shavers attested to as having increased his own natural punching power.

 

Interesting fact: Joshua also chopped wood as part of his training. It's an great exercise for general upper body strength improvement and stamina, but I doubt it has so much impact on punch power. People like Shavers or Foreman owed their punch power more to genetics.

 

Norton. Ali's none stop pulling Joe's head down makes it impossible to watch. Tony Perez was crap even back then.

 

That second fight is a victory for Ali, in the same vein as the first U-Boat scored a victory over Pathfinder in WW I. Is it winning? Certainly…but there is no honour or glory in it. Like shooting a deer, or almost any animal, really. Ali fought Frazier in a thoroughly shameful manner because he learned fighting clean & honestly the first time resulted in failure.

 

Perhaps Norton, Ali showed great heart and put up glimpses of his 60s self in the final round,that Frazier fight is a clinch contest and Ali looked more like an octopus than a butterfly

 

Ali-Norton by a landslide. I read somewhere that Ali initiated 133 clinches in the second Frazier fight. . Fights unwatchable and Ali is one of my top 5 favorites boxers

 

Jack Johnson would’ve been proud of Ali’s clutching in the Frazier rematch - see Flynn II for Lil Arthur’s own poster fight in that regard.

No Flynn should not have head butted but he did have a valid complaint re Jack’s holding - though if he was more seriously applied, I think Johnson would’ve gotten Flynn out of there much sooner.

When Johnson did bother to open up and punch, it was masterful and easy.

Of course Jack liked to twist the knife and there was also film length to accomodate to make the rights to same worthwhile - and today we are thankful that we do have more than just a few rounds of Johnson in action.

 

Ali vs Norton is a great trilogy….all 3 are great fights

 

I do think their respective middle fights showed how Ali found Frazier more difficult to deal with than Norton. He didn't feel the need to resort to this excessive clinching with Norton, and his life and death struggle with Frazier in Thrila showed how even a past prime Frazier could still take Ali to hell and back.

 

Manny Steward said Frazier was Ali’s toughest matchup as Norton didn’t have the same indomitable mentality as Frazier, and if Frazier was bigger the matchup would be even more dangerous.