two of the most refined and complete fighters in history. whose mastery of the fundamentals do you favour? i'm thinking especially of punching, combinations, feinting, slipping, footwork, adaptability... when taking power and speed out of the equation (to as great an extent as possible)
It´s close of course...... Robinson in my opinion, he was slightly better counter-puncher......Had better accuracy and footwork.....well, anyway, too close......
Hard one to pick. Maybe Robinson by a slight margin but I dunno, maybe not. I really don't watch enough Ezzard Charles as I should
I would probably favor Charles in the defense department, Robinson in combinations, and probably have a tie as far as feinting. Everything else I don't know but I'll see more of both. Robinson is a smarter fighter than I think most people give him credit for.
i think my judgement may be clouded by the mystique around Robinson. not sure i could pick against him in this case. though i have not seen as much of Charles. maybe that is similar to most people and results in him being overlooked.
thanks for your responses guys. i think the only category with a clear superior is combination punching - robinson was maybe the greatest in this regard, bar none. charles was a master at setting traps as he adapted to opponents during the course of a fight. obviously robinson did this too but it's more difficult to notice as he's often fighting at such a ferocious pace...
I was edging towards Charles before I opened the thread up, but interesting posts all round, not sure really, I'd have to brush up on a bit the old footage before I could really conclude
if charles had some official titles, he'd be more well-known among casual fans. people tend to think of him as a heavyweight, which is pretty sad. not that he didn't have some good wins there.
You know what? Charles was just about as good a puncher as Robinson; his highleet reel isn't that far off, and like Robinson, a few of his best knockouts don't exist or have been lost on film. I think if Robinson is one of the top three punchers in history, you'd have to include Charles in your top ten. Neither fighter could stand up to Wilfredo Gomez or Ricardo Lopez (naturally lighter men) in terms of being technically flawless but you could tell they were textbook boxers who had mastered their craft so well that they could afford to let things loosen up. Infact, it was even part of Robinson's style to invite punches to the left side of his face only to counter swiftly. Charles was the better infighter in regards to getting his head down and working away steadily, in contrast to Robinson who escaped from close range or drove his opponent out of his zone with flurries of punches to the body. As a side note, I would agree with the poster above me, ecto55, in that Robinson was the superior overall athlete (although not by much) however I would suggest Charles was a slightly smarter fighter by virtue of the competition he faced; as opposed to Robinson, who fought many great brawlers, Charles contended with the smarter side in Charley Burley, Archie Moore and Jersey Joe Walcott, among others, and generally out witted them.
Given the more recent accounts I've read, he didn't really seem to outwit Burley, Manassa. More of what I'd have assumed all along, that he overwhelmed his defenses with his offensive barrages. The young Charles was said to have been a much more aggressive puncher than the more reserved, cultured post-Baroudi version. The footage of his rematch with Lloyd Marshall proves this to an extent.
I always gathered that Burley used two strategies, one offensive and one defensive. Can't remember which way round, but Burley altered his plan in the rematch and fared no better; maybe it wasn't strictly a case of being outwitted, rather, Burley couldn't find a way to deal with (the heavier) Charles. Moore changed his gameplan between fights, too, and it worked to some extent. He was about even with Charles in the second and third fights. Charles seemed to have Walcott in his pocket, just, in the first two fights at least, after which he probably started fading. I would definitely promote Charles as one of the trickiest fighters in history.
