Better head movement; Tyson or Frazier?

Imo, that’s a really important myth busted.

Many will point to Tokyo and say see, the head movement wasn’t there - Mike was under par.

The irony is there was indeed some head movement - and specific examples where it did make Douglas miss. But it wasn’t practised every second - just as it never was.

Meanwhile and otherwise, Mike was getting hit hard and often, which would naturally impair his potential defensive capabilities over the ensuing rounds anyway.

 

It was pretty funny tho lol

 

Mike Tyson. Easily guys. E A S I L Y

 

Poor old Joe, damned if he do, damned if he don’t……his biggest crime? He’s an “old timer”. Nuff said, ya bunch of BOOMERS!

Note, they don’t use GEN Xers as a slur - because it sounds too coooolll! Rock on Billy!

 

Tyson beats prime Holmes and Liston.

Holmes being the much closer fight. Liston just gets blown away.

 

Yes. And Douglas also exploited what I think of as a flaw in Tyson's head movement. He slipped by the D'Amato way of bending straight sideways, not the forward and sideways movement that is standard. That meant that the side of his face was exposed when he slipped one way. Douglas exploited this, as I remember, by getting Tyson to bend yo the right by feinting a jab and then instead threw a right to the exposed left side of Tyson's face. If timed right Tyson would rebound straight back into such a right.

Frazier also had a flaw in his head movement that could be exploited. He bent straight at the waist instead of the knees when ducking, which made him vulnerable to uppercuts. Foreman made use of this.

 

Nice observation. I’ll check that out next time I watch Tyson vs Douglas.

 

I think it was this I was thinking of. Douglas actually throws the jab, but by slipping it Tyson leaves himself open to the right cross. It's about 1:40 into the first round.

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They both had pretty amazing upper body movement

 

Put the pipe down.................Tyson was 19 years old, barely a year and a half as a Pro against a seasoned veteran, your point is nil with a couple of other idiots keep bringing up the same fight over and over again...............Tyson won, knocked Tillis down, end off.

WK quit against a journeyman when he had almost double the fights Of Tyson, Liston got beat up against a fakking Middle on his way up.........earth to you , Tyson kept on winning til Douglas while being the undisputed undefeated unified Champ.

Which cannon fodder was Frazier fighting with 19 as a Pro ? I rest my case.

Frazier is 1-4 against his two signature opponents, stopped three, twice in no comp fashion....................where is the head movement there , he got tatood by light hitting Ali at will and Foreman just bounced him around like a little kid..................Frazier was knocked down, severely hurt or badly wobbled on his way up against Filler, kept clear of big punchers and gest 10000000000000000000 miles out of the rusty post exile Ali fight.

You can count on ONE hand how many times Tyson was clipped hard until the Douglas fight...................with Frazier you are running out of hands...........

BTW , Tyson stops Frazier quicker than Foreman, he aint getting up three four times.

 

It's always the same posters who have nothing good to say about Tyson and trying their damndest to convince the willing that Tyson isn't as good as he actually is. Now his head movement is worse than Frazier's?

I hate to go here but has anyone seen Frazier's face against Ali and the like? Tyson's face only looked bad against Douglas and Lewis. And even then he looked nothing like Frazier's lumped up dome. That's because he didn't get hit as much as Frazier.

Really easy guys.

 

Do not even engage anyone on this forum if you are going to be petty & vicious.
I asked you a simple polite question.
Instead of a substantive answer, I got a "crack pipe" insult, & you call a few posters here "idiots" for bringing up a fight.

Stop harming the integrity of this place with such childish hate.

I give you another chance; it seems you are at the developmental level to only identify with certain fighters & disrespect those you disdain, so unlike more mature posters will not try & be fair & balanced.
I think Tyson was superb at his best-although he lost his later legacy fights, all of them...

IF you choose to reply be civil or go away & expect to be reported for abuse.I
I doubt you speak this way in person...

1) Tyson willing does not answer why a fight was so close if he had such superb head movement in the examples you sought.
The objective answer is that a fighter who just lost his last 3 of 3 & 4 of 5 fought beyond himself-but also Tyson must have had some commensurate flaws there.
If incapable of analyzing it, that is fine, I am spitballing the answer & not 100% sure myself...just admit it & move on.

2) Frazier had fought Bonavena & Machen & Jones a few fights before #19, beat the undefeated Mathis for the HW title in his 20th fight, & won an Olympic Gold Medal when basically still a kid.
So please; I am fine if you crow about Tyson's very REAL early accomplishments, but it is either ignorance or not being honest to act like Frazier was fighting tomato cans & Tyson a world beater early.
All boxers fight some cans early, Tyson certainly no exception. But Frazier was fighting World Class guys early.

3)The only one Frazier was hurt against coming up was Ringo, who he beat by a better margin than Tyson vs. Tillis, then soundly in the rematch.

4) You should count again how many times Frazier got up vs. Foreman.
Although I AGREE that Tyson likely beats him-but if Tyson is off & it goes to the later rounds, unlikely.
Faster than Foreman, like within a round? Unlikely.

5) Ali hit everyone a lot, he deserves the "mileage" over a still superb Ali victory...In the rematch the 133 illegal holds won the fight for Ali. In Manilla, Ali gets all credit for going through Hell to win.

Why burn your bridges & be demeaning?
You have been here for a long time, so are not a young guy whose braiaiain has not developed fully or whose manners might be shot from living only on the Internet.
Stay away from the Dark Side.
I hope.

 

Just had a quick look now - I think I saw the instance you referenced - nice pick up. Buster fought a very smart fight.

 

Did not read

 

Frazier