Better left jab, Sonny Liston or Larry Holmes?

RulesMakeItInteresting · Jul 3, 2021

Though Holmes too mastered the art of stepping in with the jab, Liston seemed to actually lunge a bit during execution. Both of their techniques added tremendously to the torque of their punches, but for Liston his big step forward and freaky reach (unfortunately for his opponents) made it so he could narrow the distance between him and the other guy really easy; the opponent would have Liston right within range for a power punch immediately after, seemingly whenever Liston chose.

Sonny's jab was definitely a fearsome tool. I watched him fight again last night, and even post-Ali it was more than formidable.

roughdiamond · Jul 3, 2021

swagdelfadeel said: ↑

Billy Joiner: Well, I won the National Golden Gloves in 1962. I started my pro career in 1963. For the first match with Liston I wasn't at home training like I was supposed to. I was training, but I went to New York to train. The accommodations, my meals, and everything weren't right. So that had some bearing on the fight. I had sparred with Liston before I fought him, though. I knew what I had to do in order to survive (We both smile and laugh loudly). Liston was a good fighter. He was a great fighter, and a very strong fighter. I came in at about 195 pounds. Liston was something that it was survival for me back then, and the chance to make a little money. In the second fight, I was home training. I was more relaxed. My Dad was there, and that made a big difference.

Question: You fought Larry Holmes in 1975 when he was starting to come up the ranks (Billy was 37 at the time of that fight). Who had the better jab: Liston or Holmes?

Billy Joiner: Oh, no doubt. Liston. If I had two weeks to train for Holmes, I would've beaten him. I hadn't been in the gym in a year. I got a call right before Christmas, and was asked if I wanted to go to Puerto Rico. I had four kids, and I didn't know anything about Holmes. So I went. I jumped on him right from the beginning. I wasn't in condition. But no, there really wasn't a comparison between him at that time and Liston at the time I fought him. Liston was much stronger than Holmes. I could walk right through Holmes, but I got tired. Had I been in condition, it wouldn't have been a contest for that particular fight.

Question: Holmes kind of threw a rising up jab (I motion from the waist upward), whereas Liston threw a straight, telephone pole-like jab.

Billy Joiner: Right.

Question: How did you defend differently against the different types of jabs?

Billy Joiner: Holmes hadn't really seasoned yet at that time in his career. So, I would just walk right through him. Liston was different. His jab was like getting hit with another mans right hand. My head was red.

Question: Liston had an 84" reach. Was the reach that big of a factor with him?

Billy Joiner: It's a difference if you know what you're doing. He knew what he was doing, so I couldn't really get close to him like I wanted to.

Question: Of all of the guys you fought in your career: Zora Folley, Holmes, Blue Lewis, Liston, etc.--- who was the best guy you faced?

Billy Joiner: It was Liston. Liston was the toughest guy.
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swagdelfadeel said: ↑

A Jab Unlike Any Other Great fighters have great jabs. The most basic of all punches, a jab stings but it rarely wounds. It’s as much a defensive weapon as it is an offensive one because it’s hard for an opponent to mount an attack when a jab is always in his face. Mike Tyson learned that the hard way against Buster Douglas whose jab, for one memorable night at least, made him look like a great fighter. I’m amused when I read that Sonny Liston had one of the best jabs in history. Say what you will about the jabs of Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, and Larry Holmes, but their jabs didn’t come close to being the weapon that Liston’s was.

Trainer Johnny Tocco saw Sonny knock guys out with a single jab. Angelo Dundee saw Liston knock people’s teeth out with his jab and likened it to a battering ram. Rocky Marciano speculated that being hit with it was like running into a boxcar or a trailer truck. “I developed that jab myself,” said Sonny. “I jab wherever his head is. I jab to hurt. That’s all.”

His sparring partners called it the Cannon and its impact was fueled by his massive 15½-inch fists and 84-inch reach. “His jab always lands around the temple,” said sparring partner Ben Skelton, who worked with 11 heavyweight and light heavyweight champions. “I’ve never felt a punch to equal it, and that includes Joe Louis.” Sonny had learned on the streets and in prison that you couldn’t survive without a good jab. “Man, you don’t hit first there, you don’t hit,” he would say. “Keep poppin’ that jab right to the middle of the forehead and the other guy can’t punch right because he’s never got the balance to punch right.”

In his book, My Life Story, Joe Louis counseled young boxers to jab through their target rather than at it. Liston went Louis one better by bludgeoning his opponents with it. When asked how he would have fought Sonny, Joe said: “Well, I wouldn’t have jabbed with him.” “

He knocked me out with a right but it was that left jab that did the original damage,” said Cleveland Williams. “The left jab numbed me.” Chuck Wepner was Liston’s final opponent and claimed he heard his bones shattering when Sonny’s jab landed. Ray Schoeninger sparred with Liston in Denver in the mid-1960s and said the stitching in his headgear came apart when Sonny hit him. “He shattered my teeth. He knocked my shoulder out of place. Hey, I lost three teeth when he hit me with a jab wearing 20-ounce gloves. He knocked me on my ass from a foot away,” said Schoeninger.

A jab stings but it rarely wounds. Liston’s jab was the exception to that rule. More to the point, Sonny’s jab was the rule.

Wish I could post the source but it's unfortunately on the now defunct boxing.com
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Great posts man. Thanks for sharing.

ETM · Jul 5, 2021

Liston''s jab was like a can opener. It helped him unleash his big power shots.

Philly161 · Jul 5, 2021

Holmes jab was better overall bc of versatility, listons was harder

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Better left jab, Sonny Liston or Larry Holmes?

RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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Better left jab, Sonny Liston or Larry Holmes?

RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

Philly161 "Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless" banned Full Member