Better Legacy: Hopkins or RJJ

shadow111,

Roy looked great against Sheika and Lacy, but it was quite clear that he had no business fighting top level guys.

In my opinion, Bernard knew exactly what Roy had left in the tank at that point. He wanted nothing to do with Roy in 2002, but he was happy to fight him after Green. He even told the media that Roy was hard done by and a fight between them would still be relevant.

A few years ago on a live show, Steve Bunce of BoxNation, told viewers that he'd spoken to Bernard, and Bernard had admitted to him that the loss to Roy had literally been on his mind everyday since it happened. He said that he felt as though Roy was the the only guy in his career who ever beat him clearly with no controversy.

So what do the above comments say about Bernard's character? He thought about the loss everyday and wanted to avenge it, yet he wouldn't fight Roy in 2002, but was willing to do so in 2010?

And this guy is supposed to be a legend, with a better legacy than Roy?

Please!

It's a joke.

Even Naz Richardson tried to talk Bernard out of taking the fight.

Correct. As above, what does that say about Bernard?

It was a horrible fight, where the guy who was raised on the tough streets of Philly, threw himself on the floor at every opportunity, just like he'd done against Calzaghe and Dawson. It was cringeworthy watching him hold the back of his head during the post fight interview. In fact, it was a disgrace. He'd been trying to get Roy disqualified. He was looking for a way out of the fight, just like against Dawson when he threw himself down.

This thread's turned into a joke in my opinion.

Most of the guys on here can't see through what he did like I can.

Anyone who would even consider this win to rank Bernard higher than Roy, is an absolute fool in my opinion.

The fight was completely irrelevant, which is why it absolutely bombed and made no money whatsoever.

You know I always respect your opinion.

In my opinion, it was pointless.

Instead of people focusing on that fight, they should be asking themselves why Bernard turned down $6m in 2002, to fight Roy at a catch-weight, before then having a year out of the ring before coming back to fight Morrade Hakkar.


:good

 

So because Hopkins has never been TKO Ed that makes him better

Come on now Jones has a better wins on his resume than Hopkins even beating a closer to his prime a Bhops and he beat him with one hand ..And he only knocked out Glen Johsnon at MW that was not the same GJ that beat Tarver and Jones why do you keep bringing that up .

 

I disagree that he had “no business” fighting top level guys. Roy vs Calaghe wasn’t a terrible fight. Sure, Roy got beat up as the fight wore on, but Roy wasn’t in danger of being stopped or anything. Roy started that fight about as well as anyone could expect, knocking down Calzaghe and doing quite well tbqh.. until the CUT which changed the fight and forced Roy to be more defensive.

It was clear that Roy was no more the Superhuman unstoppable unbeatable force he was obviously, but (in my opinion) he still had plenty of business being in the ring vs guys like Cal and Hop. In fact I think it was MORE appropriate for Roy to fight those guys at that stage, who were closer to his age than young up and comers.

I think it was like Sugar Ray Leonard said in the telecast of Roy Hopkins 2. That this fight was about “them” meaning “Hopkins and Roy” that it wasn’t necessarily for the fans or titles or rankings or anything like that. SRL said that this fight really meant something to both Roy and Hopkins.

I understand how people say that it was a foul-filled fight, but there really was energy in the arena during this fight. I mean you had legends like Duran, Tarver, etc in the crowd and everyone in attendance seemed to be really into the fight. UNTIL Hopkins drama that’s when they started to Boo!! LOL

What was a disgrace though? Answer me this : Who was the disgrace in this fight : RJJ or Hopkins?

Quite clearly, it was Hopkins who was disgraceful in this fight. Hopkins landed one of the WORST low blows I’ve ever seen in the 5th round. Not even a warning of Weeks. (should have been a point deduction at least) Then in the 6th Hopkins charges Roy into the corner.. Hopkins holds on to Roy’s glove and Roy throws a punch to the side (not the back) of Hopkins head!

Compared to the terribly disgraceful low blow by Hopkins in the 5th that didn’t get so much as a warning, Hopkins going down towards the end of the 6th as a result of what appeared to be from a legal punch from Roy! Instead of that being a knockdown for Roy, Roy was actually deducted a point and Hopkins went on to Win that round LMAO!

So Loudon lets pinpoint what specifically was disgraceful? What did Roy do that was disgraceful? Towards the end, Hopkins landed a bad rabbit punch in the clinch when Roy was smiling and pandering to the crowd. Roy immediately retaliated and Hopkins went down again.

Then the double hook (head, then belt-line) dropped Hopkins again. (A Belt line punch is supposed to be legal!)

If these referee decisions went Roy’s way, it’s a completely different fight on the scorecards. I also found Doug Fischer’s unofficial scorecard ridiculous. (scoring the first 6 rounds for Hopkins, the 7th for Roy and the 8th for Hopkins??)

In all seriousness, you should take another look at that fight and decide who really was disgraceful. I came away from that fight impressed by Roy and unimpressed by Hopkins.

Actually i think this is a great thread, I think though many people are dismissing the Roy Hopkins rematch as pointless when I beg to differ. I think we need to understand how disgraceful Hopkins was in that fight, and how beat up he got by Roy. He should have got points deducted (for many many fouls), not Roy, and Roy could have legit gotten 2 knockdowns which would have really changed the complexion of the fight.

I understand why Hopkins got the decision, he was the one still ranked in the Light Heavyweight division, he still was perceived as being more relevant than Roy at that stage. Yet I found it very telling how tough that fight was for Hopkins and how badly Roy hurt him.

You’re entitled to your opinion, and I respect your opinion too. All I can judge them on are the fights that happened. I really don’t know why Bernard turned down $6m in 2002, I’d imagine Hopkins fans would say Roy should have given Hopkins 50-50 instead of saying “60-40 I whoop your ass”.

I actually don’t even think Hopkins Roy 2 should have happened in 2002. In 2002 Roy if Roy would have taken on Hopkins he might never have gone up to HW to fight Ruiz.

I think a lot of people dismiss Hopkins Roy 2 as a pointless fight or whatever, but in all seriousness IT WAS A WAY BETTER FIGHT THAN FLOYD VS PACQUIAO or countless other fights that did better financially.

In all seriousness, Roy Hopkins 2 literally had it all. I was on the edge of my seat not knowing what would happen next. There aren’t too many fights like that, two legends in their 40s fighting, with SRL on commentary. In my opinion it really doesn’t get better than that.

I’m the first one to admit when Roy didn’t look good. Against Johnson, he looked slow and terrible. Against Glazewski, for example, he didn’t look good. (he won the fight barely, but didn’t look good)

But against Hopkins, Roy was in good shape and really fought a good fight. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it! I suggest you re-watch the fight. Yes it’s cringeworthy seeing Hopkins hit the canvas and carry on holding the back of his head, but realize that Roy Jones did that to Hopkins after Hopkins came out trying to foul Jones!

That to me speaks volumes about both of these fighters and in my view the rematch greatly enhanced Roy’s legacy and greatly hurt Hopkins’s. Despite Hopkins getting a decision, those scores were highly influenced by Hopkins acting!

Had Weeks penalized Hopkins for his low blow, had Weeks ruled the 6th round a KD instead of deducting a point from Roy, etc multiple rounds could have swung back in Roy’s favor. Even the 1st round, and the 4th round, were rounds that were very close and could have been given to Roy.

It’s funny, I watched this fight a number of times, and each time I watch it I come out with a different score! But no matter how many times I watch it I just can’t come up with a score that is in favor of Hopkins. The only way I can come up with a score for Hopkins is by following all Weeks’s decisions and scoring it solely by who is throwing more punches. (like scoring round 6 10-8 for Hopkins with Roy getting a point deduction, could have been 10-8 for Roy had that been ruled a KD)

If you disagree with anything I am saying here, feel free to disagree and show me where I’m wrong. Loudon, you’ve made some great points throughout this thread and it’s great to have such an intelligent discussion regarding Roy Jones and Hopkins!

 

In the buildup to B Hop RJJ 2, B Hop was asked what he expected from RJJ. And despite the Green stoppage, and not being too far removed from RJJ Calzaghe which didn’t end well for Roy, well Hopkins said he was expecting the best Roy Jones Jr.

So it wasn’t as if Hopkins really thought RJJ was done, because he saw how much energy RJJ still had, especially in the buildup and at the weigh-in. Basically what we saw that night was a rejuvenated Roy Jones and a Hopkins that was over-perpared. I mean, this was a fight that was very personal to Hopkins and he approached it much differently than any other fight. This was about avenging the loss, the one clear no-doubt-about-it loss that Hopkins said he had (to RJJ at MW).

Roy is a stylistic nightmare for Hopkins because unlike normal opponents he can’t predict what Roy will do. And from the opening bell the way Roy fought that rematch is by making Hopkins miss and using his superior athleticism. The question though was would Roy be able to land and hurt Hopkins. And after watching the fight, the answer those those questions is YES and YES.

 

"And again Jones had already beaten Tarver before Hopkins beat him so what we are dismissing that to elevate Hopkins ?

It's statements like these that really show the faulty thinking of those who think Roy has the better legacy.

The difference is Hopkins completely dominated Tarver and not merely won like Roy did - a fighter that after Roy's win beat him twice, once by quick knockout. Bhop owned the fighter than knocked Roy out and has the way better win.

He also beat undefeated Felix Trinidad which is better than anything Roy ever did. Sorry, Ruiz was weak sauce. And by the looks of it he paid for beating that mediocrity by affecting his atheletism and turning him into a poster boy for glass chin of the decade/s.

It's really an embarassment to compare the two fighters because as soon as Roy slowed a little, he became such a relatively terrible fighter with his glass and poor fundamentals becoming more and more obvious. Bhop is leagues better.

I think that is being reflected in the poll results.

 

Ok were done here so beating a former WW who was never a good MW is better than any thing Jones did first off he already had a win over Hopkins ,and second have you heard of James Toney ? We are done here good day to you sir !

 

If B Hop is leagues better, then how do you explain what happened in B Hop RJJ 2 with B Hop going down and holding his head and needing to take 5 minutes? If B Hop is leagues better than Roy, why did he come out rabbit punching and low blowing Roy in Round 5?

If B Hop were leagues better than Roy than he wouldn’t have needed to use such desperate tactics to beat Roy. Does it hurt B Hop legacy when he was sent down to the canvas 3 times by Roy Jones in the rematch?

 

He defiantly was the favorite and he was saved by the ref in the Dawson fight I'm sick of hearing that he beat him when that fight was stopped on a cut and Dawson had him ready to go ..Bute well he was coming off his ass whooping at the hands of Froch so beating that version of Bute was also nothing special . Had he beaten Kovalev it would have been great but he knew who and when to fight don't forget he was dominated by Dawson long before all,these lhw 's started mixing it up .And Pavlik was soo a hype train I remember that hype some clowns even picked Pavlik to KO Hopkins ,A man who had never been KO Ed .. I picked Hopkins by a clinic and that's how it played out ..Hey he had an amazing career I'm not saying he didn't but it doesn't compare to Roy's is all .

 

That's what it comes down to.. a comparitively less experienced Hopkins with RJJ coming in very heavy and a fat Toney. Bhop beat Rjj worse.

 

He certainly beat Roy.

 

Funny but Hopkins did the exact same thing in the Dawson fight ,Calzaghe fight and in the rematch against a shot Jones ..He was trying to find a way out of those fights

 

He's leagues better because he doesn't have a glass jaw and knows how to defend himself.

Can you imagine Roy versus Kovalev? Roy would die.

 

Sure he is ...That's why he acted like a ***** against a shot Jones ..He couldn't carry Jones spit bucket that's why he stayed at MW until Jones was no longer the top dog then he made the move ..Sure he is leagues better keep telling yourself that

 

Yeah what a great fighter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Ay6UhettU