Better Legacy: Hopkins or RJJ

That's cool.

What's your criteria though?

How would Kov for example rank higher than Roy? He doesn't have the resume, and he's still unproven at the top level to a certain degree. He's still got a lot of question marks surrounding him.

 

He was brutalized by Danny Green and knocked out in the first round after the Johnson fight in addition to getting knocked out by Enzo and Lebedev in addition to losing three other fights in Calz, Tarv and Bhop. This is not a man who got better in totality or otherwise.

The Tarver knockout by itself in my opinion made a massive dent in his status. I think that is a lot of why Roy stayed around. Trying to undo it or make up for it but instead he just made it worse.

 

He wasn’t brutalized by Danny Green. That was a questionable stoppage. Roy was brutalized by Tarver, Johnson, and to a lesser extent Lebedev and Enzo. Lebedev and Enzo were both brutal stoppages, but compared to Tarver and Johnson, they weren’t as bad nor as shocking as Tarver and Johnson.

I agree that he went from Superman to shockingly not very good after Tarver 2 and Johnson. (in both perception and reality) Roy had slowed down after coming down from Heavyweight and that allowed opponents to catch him. However to Roy’s credit after those two shocking losses he did start to rebuild his career and put together some decent wins.

My point is that he did manage to get his career back on track after devasting KO losses which is very very hard to do especially in your 40s. Sure he didn’t have the big wins that Hopkins had in the last 10 years, but I think we can all agree that Hopkins had a lot of catching up to do after Roy’s 15 years of dominance.

I think we all can agree that Roy was better between 1988-2003 and Hopkins accomplished more between 2004-present. However in its totality after Tarver 2 and Johnson, Roy did get his career back on track, which was impressive for someone in his 40s. Compared to what Hopkins accomplished in his 40s, what Roy has done since 2004 might not seem that great, but how many fighters can fight for nearly 3 decades and still remain competitive in their 40s?

Both Roy and Hopkins longevity is impressive. Hopkins longevity is more impressive obviously, given that he's accomplished more than Roy in his 40s, but I have a lot of respect for what Roy did as well fighting on and not quitting after he got knocked out. Many fighters would have never fought again after those 2 devastating knockouts in 2004, but for Roy to remain active and notch some wins and take on some big names still should be commended. That’s not easy for anyone to do in their 40s. Just because Hopkins is older and just because he has more big wins in the last 10 years than Roy doesn’t make what Roy’s done since those 2 KO losses any less impressive.

It’s not like Roy is getting KO’d left and right. When he’s gotten stopped since 2004, it was only vs top competition big punchers, guys much younger than him. It’s not like Roy has ever been KO’d by a bum, so lets keep this in perspective.

 

I think that he was KO'ed at all is a big negative on him especially since in most of his fights he dominated his opponents and was considered by some to be invincible. This was the guy who played a basketball game before a fight to try and prove a point.

But 5 times?

Have there been any other contenders for one of the best ever in boxing who have been knocked out 5 times in a career? In a 70-80 fight range?


And Danny Green knocked him down and had him dizzy.

Roy was not punching back at all and he was getting hit and pummeled.

It was Roys fastest KO loss - a first round knockout. I think it was a good stoppage and good for Roy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-9lE8eCKAs


Also, Enzo was a very brutal knockout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBW-CkMZVdc


Roy had 13 wins and 6 losses after the knockout losses to Johnson and Tarver and got knocked out an additional 3 more times.

I don't think this can be considered good or back on track.

 

I couldn't disagree more. I think that ref saved RJJ from possibly getting seriously injured.
Careless or whatever, Roy got tagged big time on the head and was dizzy stumbling to get up. Once he got up he threw not even one punch. Not one. He was hit many times in the body and the head. I think the ref let it go on too long if anything. He was not recovering at the end he was getting penetrated and battered as he moved back on unsteady legs still not throwing anything.

Robinson? He was knocked out once and has 173 wins.

Roy has fought way, way less and has 5 times the knockouts.

I don't think they are comparable.

He has 71 fights, and he has been knocked out 5 times with 9 losses.
Any other champion considered one of the best ever have a similar record?

 

But Roy was knocked out 5 times as much, and he has fought much less. That's what's so bad. KO'ed 5 times out of 71 fights.

I saw at least a couple of head shots in there and plenty of body shots - those count to you know. I also saw Roy stumbling along and not able to throw punches. I think another second or two and he was getting knocked out in the corner. I think the Ref did his job.

 

I say Roy. Hopkins is amazing and sustained such a high level for so long, but Roy's career, while shorter and got KTFO eventually when washed up, had bigger moments. Beating Hopkins himself and TOney, massive accomplishments during their primes. Then moving to heavyweight and beating Ruiz, another massive accomplishment. Ruiz was in fact a legit heavyweight champ although some like to call him a bum. But he beat some big names himself to get there.
Hopkins had some big, surprising wins but his defining win really was over a smaller, Trinidad. Pales in comparison when looking at it from today, seeing that Jones beat him and Toney during their primes. Just my opinion though. They're both amazing.

 

Erdeis resume is good in beating WBO champ Gonzalez, undefeated future LHW champ Garay twice, former LHW champ and world rated Sahnoune, to name a few, as well as fighters like Ulrich and Lakatos. I would rate Erdei right up there

 

Thats a fair comment and yes he should be mentioned.
Tiozzo has a great win also, as the only fighter to score a clear win over Michalczewski

 

Jones has question marks after the Hall fight, Kovalev dominated against Hopkins who dominated against Tarver who bea Roy 2 out of 3 times.

 

Maske has a very good LHW resume but I wrote this century and Maske retired after the loss to Hill in the 90s and when he returned it was at CW, that was why I didnt mention him, but you are right if we were to include the 90s there would be several further mentions and I thought the list would have got far too big

 

That was a good one. Tarver's KO of Jones should probably be rated up there as well.

 

:good

So do you think Erdei would have beaten Dariusz?

 

Erdei and Kov can't be ranked higher than Roy, unless your criteria is on H2H. And even then it would be suspect.

 

I love Roy but I have to say it's B-hop