Better opposition , Ali or Evander ...

Could n't have put it better myself.

 

Just to expand upon it a bit. I think I like Ali's comp more. Holyfield fought the better comp more often, perhaps. Ali definitely faced much more wicked punchers.

 

Alex Stewart doesn't belong on that list. If you're going to start including guys of that calibur, then you might as well mention Ali's victory over Mac Foster.

 

Liston, Frazier, norton, Frazier, Foreman, Patterson, Chuvalo, Quarry.

Ali is 13-2 against these guys who are better than Holyfields comp.

Liston, Frazier, Norton and Foreman on their best nights all beat Michael Moorer, Mercer, Dokes, Toney, Rahman, Qawi, Ruiz, Bryd, Thomas and the 42 year old Holmes that fought Evander.

I give Lewis a chance against Norton, but not so sure on the others. Tyson, yet again, the Tyson that fought Evander would probably beat Norton, but would probably lose to the others. It is the underrated Riddick Bowe who is tougher to come with a conclusion with.

The Bowe who fought Evander in fight one (1992) was better than Tyson of 1996. Holyfield best win is arguably the Bowe rematch, not the Tyson wins.

Holyfield had a tougher time with Bowe in the 1993 rematch than he had with Tyson in 1996 or 1997. It was just that Tyson was overhyped after prison despite not fighting a Bowe, Tua, Lewis, Mercer etc in that period. In fact he or Don KING ducked Lewis (mandatory).

The Liston that fought Ali, despite what age he was supposedly would probably be a tougher fight for Evander to win than the Tyson one. Styles make fights, remember Holyfield was 34 himself in 1996.

 

"Liston, Frazier, Norton, Frazier, Foreman".

Sorry i made a typo, i named Frazier twice. But you must understand, Ali had multiple rematches and came out on top aginst these four, Liston, Frazier, Norton and Foreman, prime and past prime.

 

Purely in terms of name Holyfield may actually get the nod here, as someone previously stated, but if we take inte account how close they were to their prime it looks better for Ali.

Also, there are some contenders missing from Holyfield's record (Tua, Briggs, Ruddock, Morrison, Bruno), but hardly any from Ali's.

 

in evander's case you omitted : Foreman , Holmes , Douglas , Byrd , Toney , tillman , Ossie Ocasio.
in ali's case : shavers , spinks , berbick , doug jones and maybe one or two more.

Holyfield clearly.
not blaming ali of ducking anyone , maybe holyfield did duck some guys , if he had any spare time to fight them too .. , but still , evander clearly. it just emphasizes the over hype around the 70's.
it was a good time for hw , but not the best.

 

Dude, if you're going to list Ruiz, Mercer, and Moorer - then you should be listing Patterson, Quarry, Shavers, and Lyle.

 

I also agree.

Though with regards to the OP

If its strictly names then Holyfield should take it.

Otherwise its Ali on the basis that he beat all of those names that were mentioned.

 

Ali faced better opposition and beat better opposition. Quarry, Patterson, Lyle are all on the same level as a Byrd, Douglas, or Toney at Heavyweight.

Ali: Liston (past prime), Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Norton, Patterson (past prime), Quarry, Shavers, Lyle, Bonavena, Ellis.

Holyfield: Lewis, Tyson (past prime), Bowe, Qawi, Toney (past prime), Moorer, Mercer, Dokes (past prime), Ruiz, DeLeon.

 

Ali did something Holyfield really didn't though---beat the new pedigreed up and comers when he was the old guy with failing reflexes. Evander only has that 1 victory, he beat Bowe in a split decison when facing high pedigreed youth.
The rest of youth he lost to or didn't face; Klitschko's/Tua/Grant/Ibeabuchi/Golata. It would've been a lot tougher for an old Evander facing those guys than a Bean. Or a John Ruiz 3x. The youth of Byrd and Toney did some job on him also.

 

Who are all these young up-and-comers was Ali facing and beating in his old years ?

Last time I checked, a 197 pound seven-fight novice (Leon Spinks) beat him. Holmes thrashed him horribly, and Berbick beat him pretty good too.

Ali feasted on several worse opponents than even Vaughn Bean in his later years (eg. Wepner, Dunn, Evangelista) and not a whole bunch of young pedigreed killers at all.

 

Foreman, 68 olympics. Frazier 64 olympics. Ali was the 1960 champ.

You're basing everything off the old Ali. Lets take a close look at Holyfield in recent times. How'd that fight with the former middle Toney go anyway? How about Larry Donald? Just how many rounds did Evander win against Ibragimov? Split series with John Ruiz. Lopsided loss to Chris Bryd. Vaugh Bean. Not exactly stellar results.

 

You're talking about Holyfield in his late 30s and 40s, but you want me to talk about Ali when he was 32 and 33, and nothing later ? :huh

Truth is Ali did NOT beat Frazier first time out anyway, when the ages were 29 and 27, and really you could said he only outlasted Frazier, career-wise. He beat Frazier when both of them had "fading reflexes".

Holyfield was already past his best when he beat Bowe, and Tyson, and avenged his loss to Moorer, at ages 31 - 35.

Ali was totally shot at 35 or 36, and a brain damaged mess by 38/'39

 

What boxers around at the time, did Ali ever fail to meet? A rematch with Foreman was by far the biggest. A 4th Norton bout perhaps. Ali was not a guy that made a title defense once every 9 months. And when he wasn't champ he was taking on guys like Frazier/Foster/Norton/Bonavena and guys of that caliber. Hell, on the way up he took on Lamar Clark and was a road warrior fighting Cooper in the UK.

Evander cleaned up the cruiserweight division but hardly did the same thing as a heavy.