Better Overall: Robinson or Greb?

Greb based on resume

 

I agree with Robert ^. Resume-wise, it's got to be Greb.

But the problem with automatically elevating him to such status is that there's no footage of him, unless you count that odd shadowboxing thing. If we had footage of him looking like a million bucks against a top guy then it would be the seal of approval. We know Robinson looked great.

 

Robinson for me. I can visually see him box and see how good he was. He did so in a advanced era where there was more information and footage of him and his foes, thus making it harder for him to beat foes who planned for him. Finally, while there were some very good technical fighters then, the technical aspect as improved since Greb's time, as in more fighters are technically proficient. This matter because, if somebody has unmatched stamina and durability, combined with excellent foot and hand speed... one can try and compensate for not being as good in those areas with their technique and gameplanning. Two things I think improved in Robinson time, thus making it harder to do what he did.

If we're just talking resume wise, I don't think it's as clear as people make it out to be when comparing it to SRR, but I would give Greb the edge. So based on resume alone, sure, it's greb.

 

SRR

and like some of you say, you don't need the footage anyway, the fighters who fought each other, and 'their' status is all that is needed, win or lose.

but one has to consider the Era's too...

it is my understanding that the Athletic side of boxing and the stylistic Boxer, Athlete, was noticeable different by the late 20s and early 30s, so the Tough, Hard, Durable and CAPABLE Men, were perhaps not quite the added athlete's that their beneficiaries became... and likewise a decline (technic, subtle skills and numbers of fights too), around 60 years later also shows.

anyway for me the Era(s) have to be considered too. 20s to 70s GENERAL Speaking wins the day out, I think.

 

I think it would matter, yes.

 

When did this revolution happen?

I remember a decade ago, people were split among Robinson, Greb, and Armstrong.

If anything, I think the clips of Greb that surfaced on YouTube have slowly been eroding Greb's support among younger fans willing to be a little heretical.

 

Truthfully, I think some of the diversity of opinion back then came from the way that the pre-Youtube internet worked.

When everything is by text, and most of the younger amateur boxing historians on the forum don't have films of their own, I think there's more urge to go against the grain and promote an alternative to SRR.

 

Mayweather has arguably surpassed Robinson

 

One of them is the greatest ever.
The other apparently doesn't know how to shadow box.

What say you?

 

Well, I take your point about his résumé being what it is... but it's difficult to unsee something like that.

If he somehow looked underwhelming on film and we were comparing him with Robinson, say, who we know looked every inch the fighter his record suggests, then it would be hard for people not to think that Robinson would have beaten him if they could have met.

The eye test does still play a part in how people assess greatness as does the notion of h2h.

 

I don't see how Mayweather has surpassed Robinson in any way.

 

Good analysis.

I think there are a number of factors in assessing greatness and whilst achievement/résumé is probably the main one, there are other factors that people consider, such as how good the fighter looked as a way of assessing them across the eras, particularly when it comes to p4p rankings.

So having the film of Robinson and not having the film of Greb does have an influence on how we might perceive them. Because there is no actual fight footage of Greb, we can make him anything we want him to be whereas we at least know exactly how Robinson fought.

I don't think having film of Greb would clear up the debate necessarily about who was greater (people would still find a way to argue their case) but it would give us a valuable perspective on Greb that we just don't have.