Better overall skills: Roy Jones jr or Sugar Ray Leonard

I've said the same things about Roy Jones in earlier threads that I don't teach to younger fighters who admire him. He is one of the greats, but compared to Leonard and Ali, I'd say both Angelo's men were more skilled. Jones might challenge Ali by way of natural reflexes and many say his hands and feet are among the quickest in history.

His adaptability as his career progressed wasn't decent. In fact, I would say Jones declined. He didn't make the necessary changes in his style. He's a great fighter but not Ali great. Ali knew he couldn't dance for many rounds like he used to when he came back and fought Quarry, Bonavena, and Frazier. He had to take a punch. Jones did too, but he's been floored many times where he should never have seen an ounce of danger. Had he put his ego on the side and paid a bit more attention to fundamentals rather than relying on his speed and reflexes I bet he takes more out of the Johnson and Tarvers series. Danny Green? That's serious head scratching for me. Why RJJr loved to leave his jab hand waist side with the right hand between the chin and the chest is beyond me. I knew both times that Jones would get caught and face huge trouble against Tarver and Johnson. Prime Jones would out-quick Calzaghe, play a few games with him and fool him with the same shucking, jiving and flash counters. Stuff like he did to Toney, Virgil Hill, Vinny Paz and Montell Griffin. Calzaghe didn't out-quick, but he out-hustled Jones and never let him get in any kind of rhythm. Could've boxed a whole lot better later in his career considering his natural talent.

 

Really?
There should be mid-range fighting too, which goes to Jones.

 

I think Leonard is better laterally and Jones is better moving forward and back. Ray had trouble dealing with fighters who made him back up with their own jab, Hearns, Duran, Hagler(more towards the the end of the fight when it was too late). Terry Norris gave an old Leonard a pretty good beatdown and I never thought the Camacho fight was good idea either.

 

Why couldn't Charles adapt fighting past 35?

Or Pep?

Technical limitations, i guess

 

One fighters 35 is not anothers. Fighters age and depreciate differently.

Roys physical decline has been subtle, not drastic. He's still the fastest guy in his weight range, he's still impossibly strong and incredibly coordinated. His reflexes slowed by half a second, and his legs weakened. Now, he can be bullied, and hit with big shots because he pulls straight back, doesn't put his hands in proper position, boxes with his mouth open, and turns his back on opponents.

Show me Ezzard Charles or Willie Pep losing because of a series of dramatic technical mistakes like the ones that got him iced against Glen Johnson.

Willie Pep was in a plane crash. Roy Jones had to cut some weight. Entirely different reasons for a decline, and one was certainly physically steeper then the other, when one considers a majority of Roy's gifts physically haven' depreciated at all, just enough to highlight where his fundamentals were flawed. Both Charles and Pep sustained several times more physical damage in their early years than Jones did, over many more fights against tougher fighters.

I get the tongue in cheek response, but your point is moot.

 

Roy was never tested like Leonard was and came through like he was against greats. It is sad. Most greats should have to be tested to earn a top place.

 

Leonard and I dont think its close, but Jones had something that weve never seen before and thats blinding speed. That blinding speed was a bigger advantage than all of Rays skills.

 

I dont know about this. Jones was basically untouchable. He wasnt going to be in a fight where he was getting hit and drawn into a brawl. He didnt have the style for that and his speed was always going to bail him out of those situations.

I dont think you can question his heart either because he was willing to face physically bigger guys. To say he wasnt tested by a great figther with good technical skills wouldnt be fair either because he faced Toney in a high profile fight and Toney also couldnt touch him.

 

So what if he's 'still fast'? It's got nothing to do with ageing. Mayweather Sr has still got faster hands than most WWs, is he still in his prime and able to fight with the top WWs because he's technically solid? Obviously not

Roy could no longer fight or move at the same pace when coming back down from HW and was fading bit by bit throughout his 30s. His legs and stamina were shot in Tarver 1 and they declined more and more after that. He had to fight flat footed at a slower pace without the energy to slip punches. He even lost his power for the most part

 

The speed that Roy had contributed to his power. He would hit guys with shots they didnt see and they did a lot of damage. He really became an ordinary fighter when his speed started to slip.

He can now barely beat a fringe contender. Its sad he doesnt recognize this. He seems to understand boxing very well during his commentary.

 

Yes....I think Leonard had one of the best uppercuts ever......and he was definitely skilled in the inside with those vicious combinations with body punches......well, I guess you can say the same about Roy.....
Mid-Range would go to Roy probably.....close too

 

It's kinda interesting how not only Jones' chin, legs, reflexes gone but his power almost completely gone also.

Although his hands still are pretty fast (probably the only thing left from his Superman years).

 

Just how I see it. A prime Leonard beats Jones at middleweight,but as Roy was the naturally bigger man,he would be the victor at the 168 lb limit.

 

This guy had crazy speed. Shots that are just unseen. Power is not as big of a factor. This kind of speed.


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