Better resume Ali vs Mayweather

Of course his fights with Pac and Bradley when he was two and three years older showed he belonged in the division, even though never growing into it. Such was his skill. And Floyd did what he wanted with him. There is no getting round those simple facts, even though it was a stylistically good match-up for FMJ.

I'll leave it at that. Just repeating myself.

 

Ok.........

 

Manny didn’t refuse the tests outright.

He wanted a cut off date, due to what had happened with Morales in 2005.


He gave a blood sample for the Morales fight.

But it was somehow misplaced.

So they then went back and had to administer another one, close to the fight.


Manny then claimed that it had weakened him.


What most people miss/ignore, is that in the end, Manny agreed to every testing demand.

Yet the fight still didn’t get made at that point.


It was never about the testing.

If it had been about the testing, then he’d have asked for Manny to have enrolled in random, all year round testing, before then fighting him afterwards.

Or, he’d have instantly tried to have gotten the fight made, after Manny had verbally agreed to everything.

Yet neither of those things happened.

 

Ali hands down

 

He had the skill to fight there, yes.


He was a great fighter.


But there’s no getting around these simple facts either:

1. He’d never fought at WW before, despite being 36 and having had almost 60 fights.

2. He went straight back to LW afterwards.

3. When he fought Manny and Bradley in his late 30’s, he was nowhere near the 147 pound limit.

 

150 pounds, in ring, for the third Manny fight.

Give it a rest.

 

"Mayweather insisted on Olympic-style drug testing "to ensure fair play and sportsmanship by both fighters." Mayweather wanted blood tests up to 14 days before the fight, but Pacquiao would not agree to testing within 24 days of the bout. Pacquaio cited his 2005 loss to Erik Morales as the reason. Two days before he fought Morales, Pacquiao had to have blood drawn because the Nevada State Athletic Commission said he had failed to submit to a mandatory medical examination within the prescribed 30-day period before the fight. As a result, Pacquiao said he went into the fight feeling drained and weak."

This is ****ing weak reason for Manny to turn down the fight of the century. Trying to wriggle around that only shows youe bias. But Floyd could well have made them because he felt he had a way around them with the IV. Still doesn't excuse Pac.

Then Manny came back only after losing to JMM, when a significant part of the luster of the fight already was gone and Manny's star power had taken a serious hit. He still demanded 50-50, though. Floyd refused. I

I think Pac was the most unreasonable one here. After losing his title to JMM he was no longer on equal footing to Floyd. When the fight finally was made it was a 60-40 split for Floyd.

https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/Floyd_Mayweather_Jr._vs._Manny_Pacquiao

This is as long an aside as I will make on this. But your take is biased if you don't give Pac most of the blame for this. He refused an Olympic testing protocol the first time around and then demanded 50-50 when he no longer was in the position to make that demand,

That will have to be that on that for me.

 

Ali has a much deeper resume than Holmes and was undisputed champ while Holmes had co champs. So a very different situation

 

NONE of these invalidates what I said about Ali.
And I'm not even a Mayweather fanboy, I dislike him and I consider him an idiot and a pos. But he's way more skilled than Ali, it ain't even close.

You're an even bigger one. Now go back to licking Ali posters, fanboy.

 

Who is your best heavyweight of all time then?

 

When i was a teenager I had an Ali poster in my bedroom. If I ever win the lottery I'm going to buy a mansion in Truesdale Estates and have an ersatz Ali museum in one of the spare rooms.

 

So: He was only 3 pounds over the limit, on fight night?


Ha!

And this helps your argument, how??


How many fighters have an in-ring weight on fight night, which is only 3 pounds over the weigh-in limit??


He only had 5 weights at WW, weighing in at:

142 pounds
142 pounds
143 pounds
145.5 pounds
141 pounds

How many fighters weigh-in at 5-6 pounds UNDER the limit??


Move along.

 

Bokaj,


First of all, I have already told you that the only way to test proficiently, is to undertake random, all year round testing.

Because guilty fighters cycle PEDS throughout the year, when they don’t have a fight lined up.

They cycle out of competition, and stop during camp.

I have already told you this.

What on earth are you talking about??


Manny had a very valid reason.

Nobody else was tested in this way.


Give me one logical reason why Floyd couldn’t have granted him his number of days, which would have included an immediate after fight blood and urine test.

Give me one logical reason, why after Manny had relented and agreed to Floyd’s number, that Floyd suddenly withdrew them, INSTEAD of trying to make the fight.


You are talking absolute nonsense here.

Floyd was the reason why the fight had lost its lustre, and Manny’s starting point was always going to be 50-50, and especially after he’d been slandered and racially mocked/abused.

So he accepted less. So what was the issue?

Absolute nonsense.

Again, he only wanted a cut off, due to a very VALID reason.

Again, there was no legitimate reason why Floyd couldn’t have given him his cut off days and then made the fight.

Again, there was no logical reason why Floyd pulled them altogether, even though Manny had backed down and had AGREED to Floyd’s number.


You can’t be serious here.

At the time, were you not thinking why Floyd couldn’t have done those things?


Was that not a red flag for you?

He’d gotten what he’d wanted, so then why didn’t he instruct Leonard Ellerbe to try and make the fight??


It was never about the testing.

All you need to know is this:

In 2013, Manny publicly verbally agreed to all testing demands.

Yet the fight still didn’t happen until May, 2015.


The reason it didn’t happen earlier, is because Floyd’s Uncle Roger had gotten inside of his head and had spooked him.

 

I was actually talking about Wladimir.

With the logic that you have used, I said sarcastically, that you could rank Wlad higher than both Ali and Lennox.

But it doesn’t matter.

You have proved my point with your Holmes example.


It’s not just about statistics is it.

It’s about circumstances.

Which is the exact reason why we all should apply the relevant context that is needed.


Yes, we rightly can’t rate Wlad/Larry, higher than both Ali and Lennox, simply because there is a lot MORE to look at than just the number of title defences, and the length of their reigns etc.


Was that not my initial point?


Which is why that it doesn’t matter that Wlad reigned for longer than Larry.

That is not enough to rank him higher.

 

Anybody who types out that Ali tricked Foreman, is COMPLETELY UNWORTHY of debating with anybody here.

You don’t have the capacity.

You don’t have the integrity.

You are simply not worthy of our time.

So move along you CLOWN.