Better resume Ali vs Mayweather

"If Ali was just a great heavyweight why did he lose to Norton who did nothing at the weight other then beat Ali."

 

Yes, Manny wasn’t a legit WW.

But he hammered Cotto and Hatton.

He went higher and beat Marg.

He lost to Marquez, because they matched up great together, and he was caught by a perfect shot.

But that was a few years later.

Prime Manny was around 2009.

The perfect time to make the fight was 2009-2010.

 

You’ve not told me why you mentioned Mike.

Was it just out of interest?

 

Norton also has wins over Quarry and Young. That is very clearly more than nothing. I am not agreeing with original premise about Pacquiao at welterweight, I'm just simply saying that this response is also bad.

 

I’m hoping that his response was just a sarcastic one to Cojimar.

 

The sarcasm doesn't even work which was my point. I think it would've been better for him to make an argument about how obviously one L taken doesn't remove everything else someone has achieved instead of attempting some quip that doesn't work under the original logic of the statement he's replying to. I hope that makes sense and I apologize if it doesn't.

 

I agree.

But I’m assuming that he posted it because he didn’t agree with the logic that Cojimar had tried to use.

We’ll have to ask him.

 

The point is to show how stupid the original response is

 

Who did he beat who was highly rated pfp?

 

Ali easily

 

For once, I’m not arguing with you.

I’m just asking why you mentioned it?

And are you talking about guys who were highly ranked in his weight class?

Or who were on the top 10 P4P list at the time?

 

I mentioned it because neither McCallum nor Ali were beating guys near the top of the pfp list, like Mayweather was, and i wanted yo make you aware of the truth.

 

Okay.

But there’s still a lot to look at.


The strength of the eras etc.

The 80’s and 90’s were stacked.


You know that some guys in some eras, couldn’t have made it onto the list in other eras.

Guys like Calzaghe and Hatton were on there in 2007 and 2008.

Yet if they’d have been prime in the 90’s, they probably wouldn’t have had a sniff.


Like I always tell you, context is the key.

Official stats aren’t enough. They’re a good gauge for sure, but not definitive.


Mike beat some very good fighters.

I’d say that wins over guys like Kalambay, were better than Floyd’s wins over Marquez, and even a faded and injured Manny.

Also, like I keep telling you, Floyd never had a win over a prime ATG.


I just don’t obsess over the stats like you seem to do.


List Floyd’s best wins.

Then put them up against Mike’s.


They’d be comparable.

Not on name value.

But in terms of quality.


We know that Floyd has famous names like Oscar, Shane, Manny, Cotto and Canelo.

We know that Mike can’t compete with those. Based upon name value.

But you know that most of those guys were faded, whereas Mike’s weren’t.

So I’d put Mike’s best wins up against Floyd’s.


He beat:

Ayub Kalule
Donald Curry
Julian Jackson
Sumbu Kalambay
Herol Graham
Steve Collins
Michael Watson

He drew with James Toney.


They stack up to most of Floyd’s wins.

Now they certainly wouldn’t have if Floyd had fought prime versions of those guys. But he didn’t.


So wins over Kalambay, Jackson and Watson etc, are absolutely on the level of wins over faded versions of Shane etc.

 

Mayweather beat Mosley coming off a kayo of Margarito and receives little credit for the win

 

Have you actually seen any other fight with Norton? Do you know that he nearly beat a prime Holmes while past his own prime?