Better resume Ali vs Mayweather

What you consider as the 3rd toughest heavyweight era?

 

JMM, who previously fought at 135, whom Floyd brought up to a 144 catchweight, and then exceeded that by another 2 pounds. Floyd's resume is a joke.

 

If he retires after Castillo 1 and doesn't face Mayweather he retires with one loss and wins over Gainer, Castillo, Freitas, Casamayor etc.

I don't view Frazier as an ATG he has a brief prime thin resume and too much of his legacy is based on the Ali win. So these things are subjective

 

Yes but that's all ifs buts and maybes and you're creating a fantasy scenario that could never happen as Mayweather did exist so it's irrelevant.

As for comparing Frazier to Corrales.

Frazier's notable wins...

Doug Jones
Oscar Bonavena x2
Jerry Quarry x2
Jimmy Ellis x2
George Chuvalo
Muhammad Ali
Joe Bugner
Bob Foster
Buster Mathis
Eddie Machen

Diego Corrales notable wins....

Joel Casamayor disputed decision.
Angel Manfredy
Robert Garcia
Derrick Gainer
Jose Luis Castillo
Acelino Freitas

I wouldn't say Corrales has a superior resume in all honestly.

 

Frazier's argument for having a better resume hinges on having beaten Ali. Corrales would easily be ahead of Frazier if he'd beaten Mayweather.

 

A number of those guys weren't even ranked. I don't think Foster or Mathis qualify as notable wins. Jones is pretty questionable as well

 

what.the. ****

 

If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

Not sure why you and NoNeck love talking about random stats with no context and nonsense hypotheticals instead of talking about what ACTUALLY happened.

 

Your signature method of debating is to ignore any valid points someone brings up that you're unable to counter.

 

White Bomber is a hardcore Tyson fanboy and a modernist who hates Ali with a passion. In literally any Ali thread he posts in, he downplays and disparages either him or his competition and acts as if Ali didn't have a single legitimate win over any decent opponent.

 

Frazier was guaranteed to go to the hall of fame with or without Ali's return to boxing.

He was a gold medalist who cleared out his division slaughtering all the notable contenders and ranked fighters of the late 60's/early 70's. Corrales never came close to doing anything like that. The Ali win simply separates Frazier's resume from Corrales by 2 miles rather than just 1.

 

The only good win in those 5 title wins Trout had was against Cotto, the rest were all unranked. In fact, they outright sucked so bad that they didn't even propel Trout in the Ring Magazine top 10 at 154 until he beat Cotto, who remains the only good official win on his ledger. And we all know Ali > Cotto. When you put Cotto aside, Trout doesn't even have a Young or a Quarry level guy on his resume. Norton > Trout, and there's a big gap there.

Who are those well known names Lara beat other than the ones you mentioned ? I'm willing to give Lara the Williams win, since he genuinely deserved it. But he legitimately got beaten up vs Hurd and his draw against Castano isn't all that either, all he's known for is the close first fight with Jermell before being beaten silly in the rematch. Are we also erasing the fact that Lara drew with Colima and Martirosyan when the head clash happened ?

The facts remain that Frazier > Williams, Norton > Trout, Moorer at 45 > Martirosyan, Lyle > Smith/Angulo.

 

You're being too nice to Corrales. It's not just 2 miles, it's the distance that seperates Maine from Barcelona. Frazier is undefeated vs Quarry x2, Ellis x2, Bonevena x2, Chuvalo, Ramos and a past it Machen. Corrales is 1-1 against Castillo ( his best win), 1-2 against Casamayor, and is left with Freitas (admittedly a good win) and the forgotten ATGs Justin Juuko and Angel Manfredy

NoNeck is basically arguing that had Corrales won a fight against a P4P ATG that he lost every second of, he'd be greater than the guy who clearly won his fight with his P4P ATG when both were closest to their primes. At this point, he might as well say that Floyd > Ali because the latter would not be considered a great fighter had he decided never to become a Boxer.

 

Lmao, you just get worse.

Frazier did beat Ali, Corrales didn't beat Floyd.

Frazier > Corrales

 

It's as simple as that.

Nobody is arguing that Floyd isn't a better boxer than Ali - naturally, the lighter fighters are technically and athletically superior to the HWs, it has always been this way.

You cannot reinvent fighters, however, or reimagine their careers or repurpose their skillset when we have seen what they did.

Corrales was a world class fighter at one time - nowhere near an ATG.

Frazier was a bonafide great on account of being an Olympic gold medallist, unbeaten and undisputed world heavyweight champion and the first man to defeat the undefeated Ali who is a lock for top 2 (my no. 1) HW ever based on who he faced and beat. This cannot be rationalised as they are the facts.

There's no sane realm where Corrales could match Frazier as what he hypothetically could've done, but actually didn't, Frazier did do.

Floyd is one of my favourites and I've often argued, greatest defensive skillset ever for his consistency of application of all the facets, but the claims of world title claimants and weight classes hold less weight with me.

I don't rank all the junior, super weight classes, interim, silver champ nonsense - it's still 8 weight divisions and one real champ per division to me. Floyd and Pac's claims need to be scaled down so that I can legitimately rank them alongside greater fighters of yesteryear.

Frazier is miles greater than Corrales - all day and every day!