Better resume Mayeather or De la Hoya

I know Quartey was P4P top ten at one stage because I used to buy those monthly mags, KO Magazine and The RIng.

This content is protected

-change the 0 to o
(According to this thread Quartey was #9 P4P in the 1997 year end rankings by KO Magazine. Then he was out 14 months and obviously fell off due to inactivity. Might have even went as high as #7 since Junior Jones and Terry Norris were both KTFO at the end of that year soon after that list was made)

And if Whitaker was on drugs, he was still P4P #3 and put in a worthy performance against Oscar some even thought he deserved the W for.

You're right about Chavez tho, he didn't make any year end top 10 P4P after the Randall fights, as on the KO rankings in that thread.

He didn't win fighter of the decade because of one Roy Jones, who was unquestionably the fighter of the 90s. And the Trinidad loss probably left a bad taste in every boxing aficianado's mouth, including all the writers, who I can imagine wouldn't have been too keen to reward Oscar with such an esteemed award so soon after such a hi-profile and much criticised loss.

However as time has gone on, Oscar has received more credit for his boxing performance that night. Just as time has been forgiving on his losses, which at the time were definately held against him. I don't think people are rating him solely on who he fought, he has some very good wins, probably just as good or better overall than FLoyd's when comparing them, and the fact he did fight the best all throughout his career and was so competitive against them that alot of his losses could have gone either way it's easy for people give him the edge over Floyd, who didn't fight the best opponents in his prime.

 

Whitaker and Chavez were seen as easy pickens by Oscar. This is evident. Watch the Hurtado Whitaker fight. Oscar starts cheering like a giddy school girl when Whitaker gets the KO. In a fight he might he had to win the next 2 rounds just to get a draw in. Against Rivera many feel he got 2 gifts.


Point being Whitaker was well past it when he fought Oscar the 1st time. I'd probably take the Whitaker of that night to beat Mosley and Oscar that Floyd fought. But that may have been a one off performance, a last gasp. Whitaker of the Rivera and Hurtado fights loses.


As for Chavez, Mexicans hate Oscar because they know he took the perfect opportunity to batter one of the their heroes when he was on the decline. Oscar was bigger and the younger man against a past it fighter, fighting well above his best weight class already.

He was an idiot. But his skills at 130 were ATG level.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRs50e7xjwo[/ame]



One of probably 2 fighters that would have had a chance against Mayweather at that weight.
[qupote]I take away sturm, wasn't even a close fight. But I believe he beat quartey, tito, shane2 and maybe pea, either way fight.[/quote]
Quartey and Pea were just as close as his fight with Shane.

Beating Keith Mullings who beat a shot Terry Norris, and he beat him by MD no less. Whereas David Reid, Winky wright and Steve Roberts blew him out. Not a real credible victory. A middling opponent.

We havent seen any of the middleweights fight eachother so thats impossible to determine. If Sturm was taking balls to wall against a guy like Macklin it leads me to believe he's not that good, and is merely another Sven Ottke, well Ottke fought better competition in Germany thats for sure.

When I first started watching boxing, I scored the fight to Oscar, because of his activity. When i started looking for clean punching, ring generalship, effective aggression and defense. I give it to Pernell Whitaker. His fight with Ike Quartey can go either way. REally not a good performance by Oscar when you consider the opposition level. Quartey was a good championship level contender, but he is more known for failing valiantly against upper tier competition then beating them.


Like I said, when I list victories back to back, its Floyd every time. I consider Floyds time at 130-135 to top any of Oscar's escapades at 147 and above. If Floyd beats Ortiz in september, I dont think there is any question of who the greater fighter was.

 

Floyd had 4 fights in 135. Is it not stretching that a bit?

 

The real question will be should the great Victor Ortiz go before or after the great Carlos Baldomir on Floyd's resume?

 

This is the conflict boxers face tho, because whilst their decline was evident they were still the champ when he fought them. Chavez did overturn his loss and pea did score the knockout. No contender would turn down a title shot because the champ has faded. Look at bundrage for instance, spinks was shot beyond belief but he'd have been foolish turning it down.

I'd have loved to see arguello against floyd between 130-135.

Close indeed, I give oscar the edge tho. I don't think it's possible to think he beat sturm.

Again tho, norris was the unified champ, mullings would be foolish turning it down and he didn't lose again till castillejo who didn't lose again until oscar. Combined with the victories later it's fair to say he's a decent scalp imo.

You're right it's very fractured at 160 but sturm has the longevity which chavez, pirog and geale don't have.

I wouldn't argue with it being scored to pea. Guy was a legend, love watching his fights.

Going by official results I see an argument, going by my results I don't.

Beating ortiz might not be enough, but following it up with khan and pac certainly would and i'd argue him above pea in that scenario which puts him 15-20 level. Up there with the likes of benny leonard, gans, moore, ray leonard. Excellent company and he's only 3 fights away. Must be a good time to be a fan of his right now.

 

Why would have to do that? Oscar clearly beat Whitaker, Quartey, and Tito... as well as Mosley in the second fight. Oscar vs Whitaker was too close to call a robbery, same with Quartey. I felt he won them both, but even if you didn't.... (which of course you are prob one of those guys) it would be too close of a fight to call a robbery. Whitaker waited WAY to long to even begin mounting an offense and then lost the 12th as well. I suggest you go back and watch that fight. Just as Oscar won the Quartey fight with a huge 12th round. Much like Mosley beat Oscar in the first fight by taking the 12th.

Also, you keep trying to pick apart whether or not Oscar won or lost against people on his resume. That doesn't matter... a Resume is WHO YOU FOUGHT, not the outcome. So all of those biased opinions are out the window.

Sidenote: How the hell are you going to keep saying that Whitaker was past it, cocked out, ect... and then come back by saying that he beat Oscar? If you think that he won... then clearly he wasn't past it. Also, Whitaker was coked out AFTER... AFTER the loss to Oscar. I also like how you keep making excuses for Chavez and Whitaker being old, shot, ect... when Chavez was younger against Oscar than Oscar was against Mayweather. Also, Whitaker was younger against Oscar than Oscar was against Pacquiao. How come you aren't pointing out that fact? Let alone the a much more important fact that both Chavez and Whitaker were current WBC Champions, and active fighters when Oscar moved UP in weight to fight them! Whitaker himself said that he was on the top of his game when he fought Oscar. Just a couple years ago on ESPN, he named that fight as one of his top 5 performances of his career! Chavez didn't lose another fight for over 3 years after Oscar beat him, to anyone not named Oscar De La Hoya. Even 4 years after Oscar first beat Chavez, Kostya took even longer to beat him. Stop with the nonsense. Neither of them were shot when Oscar fought them, and nobody said anything like that at the time. Both were considered huge steps up for Oscar in his career and many if not most predicted him to lose both of those fights.

Yet, you fail to mention that Oscar was an extremely inactive part time fighter. Although he held the WBC title from his win over Mayorga... he clearly wasn't a dominant Champ at the time. Or an active one. Oscar had only boxed 6 rounds in nearly 3 years before he fought Mayweather. Let alone the shell of Oscar De La Hoya that showed up against Pac.

 

uh Oscar did not beat Quartey. I'll give you Whitaker but not Quartey. close fight but Quartey clearly won enough rounds to win the fight despite the KD's. that was Quartey coming off a year-long lay-off looking more flat-footed than ever and he still beat Hoya's ass

 

Mayweather´s wins: Genaro Hernandez, Diego Corrales, Jose Luis Castillo x2, Judah, De la Hoya, Hatton, Marquez, Mosley.

De la Hoya`s: Genaro Hernandez, Julio Cesar Chavez x2, Whitaker, Camacho, Quartey, Castillejo, Vargas, Sturm, Mayorga.


On the first glance, they look pretty much even. But then you have to consider that Chavez, Camacho, Mayorga and Whitaker were past their prime when they fought De la Hoya.

Same way, Mosley, Marquez and DLH were past their prime when Mayweather fought them.

Now, I'll consider Mayweather and Oscar's wins ONLY over prime fighters. And only clear victories (no close or controversial decisions):

Mayweather has these important wins: Corrales, Castillo, Judah, Hatton

Oscar has these important wins: Quartey, Vargas, Castillejo


MAYWEATHER WINS.

Then, if you consider that Oscar has also several loses, it is clear that Mayweather is the greater fighter.

 

Is that a joke?

 

Why do you say it? :deal

 

I mean, I'm trying to prove (with logic and objectivity) why Mayweather has a better win resume.

Fact is, most of De la Hoya's wins were over old fighters, and some were controversial decisions. Mayweather also has this problem, but he still has the Corrales win, one of his wins over Castillo, the Hatton win, the Judah win, etc.

 

I simply refuse to get into the same debate 30 times in the same thread. You are going to have to do some reading. Honestly...if you think that those three fighters are Oscar's only important wins, you need to pick a different sport to be a fan of.

 

Ok, ok, I'll read.

 

^^^ This.


If Mayweather got dropped by an inactive Quartey, who lost to Vargas, Forrest, and Wright, and won a disputed decision, people would be claiming Mayweather was overrated.


Yet this is one of Oscar's biggest victories.

 

Whitaker landed more clean punches, and was certainly the ring general and better defensively. Oscar's aggression was for the large part ineffective.

Umm no. Resume is who you beat. Not who you fought. If it was who you fought Gatti and Demarcus Corley would be top 20 today in terms of legacy. There would be plenty of contender level fighters who would be considered ATG's if we go by who they fought. Foolish thing to say.

Because he won 2 disputed decisions to Rivera, and was on his way to losing to Hurtado before the KO.

As I said. It looks bad on Oscar. Oscar was the younger fresher fighter, but Whitaker made him look foolish. The win really adds to Whitakers aura and legend rather then Oscars.

Oscar didnt have 100 fights under his belt. When Oscar fought Chavez he was in his early 20's. When Mayweather fought Oscar he was 33. Mayweather was 30. Oscar is only 3 years older then Floyd.


Which also says why Floyd is the greater fighter. Floyd is fighting a young champion in Ortiz at 35. Meanwhile Oscar was struggling with Stevie Forbes at the same stage of his career.


Suffice to say, the age gap between Chavez and Oscar in comparison to Oscar and Floyd is laughable to compare.

Because Pacquiao was a featherweight fighting a full blown welter.
[quopte]Let alone the a much more important fact that both Chavez and Whitaker were current WBC Champions,[/quote]
So holding a strap means you arent faded or shot? Please do tell.

Maybe. As I said, it might have been a one off. He clearly wasnt on top of his game against Hurtado or River. And he clearly never caim close to replicating that performance in the ring again.

And who did Chavez fight during those 3 years?

The first fight was stopped by a cut. Kosta took a shorter time to beat Chavez then Oscar did their second fight. What a none argument anyway. Both fights Chavez was severly outclassed and done as a fighter.

Please name a top ranked fighter Chavez was able to beat from his 1st loss to Oscar to the Tszyu fight?

Bull****.

So is Floyd. Yet in Floyds inactivity he comes back periodically to reestablish his dominance. And unlike Oscar at 35 Floyd is still seen as the 1st or 2nd best fighter in the world.


As Floyd Mayweather said "No little man is going to retire me"