Better Resume - Whitaker or Cesar Chavez?

...........At first, I immediately thought Whitaker. It's glossier, but upon more consideration, it's really pretty even. ONe could argue one over the other, but that would be splitting an awfully fine hair.

 

I agree, thats why i didnt comment!!

The very best names on Whitaker's record have been against guys who were above their best weight. I still havent ever scored his DeLaHoya fight, if he won that one though it would mean a lot (in terms of at the time). You seen it, know a link for it?

Chavez has wins against plenty of good guys but they're not really great, sort of even imo

 

...........I don't have a link for it, but I have seen it. Difficult fight to score, but I had it for Oscar by a point. Could easily have been scored the other way.

I don't know that I agree that Whitaker beat most of his big names above their best weight. The fight against Chavez was for the welter title of course, but both came in light, and welter wasn't exactly Whitake's best weight either. Chavez came in at only 142 anyway, so it wasn't like he packed on the pounds.

He beat Mayweather at lightweight, McGirt was considered a P4P guy at 147 when Pea beat him the first time, and he also stepped up to a very unnatural 154 to beat a long-reigning champ in Vazquez, who was very, very strong there. Ramirez twice at his only real weight class twice.

 

He actually beat Mayweather at Junior Lightweight and Junior Welterweight with Mayweather being peak at 130 of course.

 

I jsut meant the very best names , which are Chavez and Nelson imo , the others dont come into that category for me. And they are names which Chavez' record doesnt have equals of. The Ramirez' and Rosario's aren't on their level for me. That's why i thought they sort of equal each other out.

Pea probably just edges it though if im forced to pick. I know Chavez was only 142 for their bout, but imo he was never as good even at 140 as what he was at 130 and 135. I still think he was one of the greatest LWWs in history, number 2 imo, but that's more base on results than him being a great fighter in his prime

 

I jsut meant the very best names , which are Chavez and Nelson imo , the others dont come into that category for me. And they are names which Chavez' record doesnt have equals of. The Ramirez' and Rosario's aren't on their level for me. That's why i thought they sort of equal each other out.

Pea probably just edges it though if im forced to pick. I know Chavez was only 142 for their bout, but imo he was never as good even at 140 as what he was at 130 and 135. I still think he was one of the greatest LWWs in history, number 2 imo, but that's more base on results than him being a great fighter in his prime.

Pea seemed to be able to do his thing at his higher weights though, tougher on your body to do Chavez's thing with bigger guys

 

Pea is better head to head but I feel Chavez had the slightly better resume.

 

This is how I pretty much see it too. Whitaker definately deserved the nod in that 1993 meeting, but Chavez has a record matched by none. The longest winning streak in history is certainly something to be admired. While both men fought their fair share of good opponents, I think Julio beat a few additional rated opponents who were a bit better. Handing an undefeated Camacho his first loss was a huge win. Beating a prime Roger Mayweather twice was also very good. Coming back to take the win over Taylor was a collosal victory, albeit controversial. Whitaker was horribly robbed against Jose Luis Ramirez, but Chavez made sure that losing a decision wasn't going to happen against Ramirez. Both men beat Haugen, but Chavez destroyed him.

 

I think fighting as actively as Chavez did is what kept him on top for so long. Greg Haugen made fun of him once by saying that he padded his record by fighting cab drivers from Mexico city, but this was obviously an oversimplification of the truth. Chavez would fight a world champion or top contender, beat the **** out of him, then one month later would take on a journeyman soley for the purpose of staying active. Two or three months later, he'd be in the ring again beating the **** out of another world beater. There is a big difference between simply padding your record, and fighting lesser opponents in between big fights-something we rarely see with champions these days. So yes, I think Julio's recognition for a great record is well deserved. Calling it padded With no further explanation is inaccurate and one sided.

Well, Camacho and Chavez were both the same age, and Hector was beating world class oppostion along with still being 13 years away from the end of his career, so I'd say it was a genuinely great victrory. Not to mention, Chavez absolutely dominated that fight leaving very few good moments for Camacho. Macho's face looked like a tomato by the end of the fight if I recall. My original ascertion that Hector was undefeated was slightly inaccurate. I now remember him losing a controversial decision to Haugen, but that fight has often been represented as a no contest, still I guess it was a defeat nonetheless.

That is the name of the game. Sometimes to acheive greatness, you have to beat the crowds as well as your opponent. Part of the hostility from the fans was Haugen's own doing. During some of the pre-fight conferences and interviews, Greg Spewed off at the mouth, and made some comments to chavez that were borderline racist. He got way with a lot of things back in 93' that he would not have gotten away with today. Naturally, the fans filling the arena ( mostly hispanic ), hated his guts.

 

Jc beat roger mayweather at 130 and 140,i think pea beat may at 135.

 

"Show me a guy with an unbeaten record and I'll show you a guy who hasn't fought anyone."

It does not apply to Chavez, but it rings true to a certain degree.

Whitaker should be rated higher on the basis of his sterner tests. Chavez was pretty darn lucky to keep his unbeaten record for so long, whereas Whitaker was on the wrong side of the decision at least a couple of times.

 

Whitaker, I consider him to have wins over: Chavez, De La Hoya, Nelson, McGirt X2, Vasquez, Ramirez X2, Mayweather, Haugen, etc.

I don't see how Chavez's resume beats that when you factor in that Whitaker handily beat him when they fought.