Better Top 5 Wins at SMW: Froch or Calzaghe?

yeah you've clearly and blatantly said hes at a similar level ie Veit=Bute

But look. WHy not justlets pretend you've won the argument again and pretend that Veits peaking with a few WBO intercontinental defences are better than Bute's resume culmination of 9 IBF real title defences. It will save me endlessly telling you its not true, I cant bear typing the same thing again and again. But dont let me stop you arguing your point to others. I dont wont to deprive you. I am not a bad person, so I admit you have 'schooled' me there! well done!

 

I rate Butes resume above Veits, but level wise I would say its similar

Who did Bute beat as good as Braehmer when he was 27-0 or Brewer who was world rated? Im sure Bute has some who were as good, I will let you tell me

The win Calzaghe had over Veit was a very good victory.
The first time Calzaghe beat Veit, Veit was 30-0 and hadnt beaten anyone of real note, hence he was blown away in a round by Calzaghe.
When Calzaghe beat Veit a 2nd time Veit was an accomplished world rated 45-1 interim world champ fighter who had some solid victories behind him, and was top 10 rated.
Veit had beaten undefeated Dziarra who wasnt a great fighter but did go on to beat L Mock and undefeated M Oral who would go on to challenge MW champs A Abraham and S Sylvester recently.
Veit had also beaten beaten undefeated Guerrero for the European union title.
Veit beat future title challenger Salem and Mock.
Veit also beat world rated C Brewer with an educated destructive 9th round KO.
A note on Veit. He only ever lost to world champs or fighters who became world champs and has victories over Mock, Salem, Perdermo (a future Kessler challenger), Brewer when Brewer was world rated and Veit beat undefeated Braehmer who is now the current WBO LHW champ due for a unification fight in JAN 2011. Since not happend due to illness
A good Calzaghe victory over a mandatory world class SMW
Also a great away victory for Calzaghe in Germany

Just for the note Veit was interim not intercontinental champ. there is a difference. If you do not know, PM me and I will explain.

Once again though, you are going on number of defences instead of quality. With that silly logic of yours, I could say Bute is 30-1 when Veit went 45-1.
Hatton didnt win a world title till about his 39th fight, but built a bit of a resume if not a great one

 

OMG!! lol ANOTHER POST from the MOUTH OF MADNESS!

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=16148&cat=boxer direct quote -IBF Inter-Continental super middleweight title 5 defences, interim WBO super middleweight title - 3 defences. all in germany
the truth!

PLease stop Bailey, PLEASE PLEASE lets simply pretend that you schooled me already into admitting that Veits brief run of intercontinental title defences and and him being handed and then promptly losing an interim title (that I already mentioned,but you seem to think I havent) are better than Butes 9 IBF world title defences. You've won. Now please leave me alone lol. I beg of you! I want my dinner!

 

Do you believe that belt makes the fighter?

Answer this question and be honest.

I will use Hatton as an example.
Hatton won his first world title in his 39th fight and was 39-0. In that time before winning a world title he had beaten Thaxton, Lauri, Rowland, Pep, Phillips, Rios, Tackie, Magee plus a few more.
Now Shumenov has had 14 fights is a world champ and 13-1. Now Shumenov has made 4 successful defences here compared to Hatton above who was not a world champ.

Answer truthfully here, but who do you think has the better resume between the 2 of them?

 

Please answer the question instead of pulling another duck

Who did Bute beat as good as Braehmer when he was 27-0 or Brewer who was world rated? Im sure Bute has some who were as good, I will let you tell me

Stop ducking now

 

I have never heard of Hatton (joke, but please do use that as a serious point so that can pretend you've schooled me).

I was comparing Bute and Veit, and nobody else. Please guvnor, I already admitted that intercontinental titles **** on the multiple IBF defences, so may I have my supper now? I'll admit anything if you'll let me eat my food.

 

Nobodies stopping you. Bet Ducks on the menu for you tonight

 

YEYYY!


see you arent all bad.

 

Consider that some of those defences were against the likes of Miranda and Mendy

Do you think Bute's defence against Mendy was better than Veit's defence against Brewer? (forget about belts)

 

So far you have tried to use:
1: random articles off the net written by unknown writers
2: A Roy Jones quote

And now this. That Richard Hoffer article was written in 2006 and it is obvious from reading it that he is quoting Toney's biased account of the lead up to the fight.

So I'm going to deal with the article one point at a time:

Point 1:
Donald McRae is a sportswriter who was with Toney during his camp:

The Dark Trade Page 163

First point A smw is a 180+ lb fighter who drains down to 168 lbs then rehydrates back up to 180+ by fight night. So at least 12 lbs can be shaved off the supposed amount

According to Donald McRae his camp was six weeks long

According to an article at the sweetscience he trained hard

http://www.tss.tv/2005/04/1994/

common sense:
It is obvious that he trained hard. You dont get from 200+ down to 167 without training hard

 

Kessler 2007 UD Pascal
Johnson 2011 US Lacy 2006
Eubank TKO Dirrel
Reid UD Taylor at SMW
Mitchell UD Abraham at SMW

so I would say looking from time perspective Calzaghe wins,
if you would exchange Taylor for Bute then it is closer

 

point 2:

This is a lie because from the footage of the weigh in you see Toney stepping on the scales unaided
go to 7:23
http://www.youtube.com/v/xdgo7uN7HtQ&hl

point 3

Donald McRae said he rehydrated 17 lbs
The HBO team reported him at rehydrating 17 lbs
Go to 5:05
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb9W87oQ4po[/ame]

If you look at the weigh in before the Jones fight he weighs in in at 184 lbs. Thats 184 after a couple of meals and with clothes on
Go to 8:50
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST0uwo1Abqc[/ame]

That's three lies right there

 

It was already a well documented fact that Toney cut large amounts of weight for fights - the Jones fight was no different

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-11-18/sports/sp-64197_1_roy-jones

Toney admits himself that he didnt think his conditioning was going to be a factor which would explain why he was still eating cheeseburgers in camp

http://www.thesweetscience.com/article-archives/1982-was-james-toney-ever-young

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-11-19/sports/sp-64703_1_roy-jones

After the fight he claims he was drained a little bit, which is a far cry from being weak, flu ridden and forced to fight. The thing is he was always a bit drained for most of his fights which is why he rarely ever fought for the whole 3 mins of any given round. Another thing that should also be pointed out is that he never gives Jones any credit for the win, which is why keeps playing up the whole weight loss angle

So, so far you have used:
1: Random articles from unknown writers
2: A quote from Jones - as if Jones knew what was going on in Toney's camp
3: A biased account of the build up to the fight which I have now shown is full of lies

I really hope you can do better that this.

 

The wbo was unrecognised by the people that count and that is all that matters.

Benn knew that which is why he opted to fight for the wbc belt when he was also the mandatory for Eubanks wbo belt

Eubank also knew it which is why he talks about it in his book.

The reason showtime got involved in Benn-Eubank II was because Benn had the wbc. Benn would get 1m and Eubank would get 800k. Benn would later on state that this was because the wbo belt was not recognised.

The wbo was a lightly regarded belt back in the 90's and that is all there is to it.

Eubank stated in his own autobiography that he wasnt keen on fighting the top American fighters. He would then go on to say that he would only fight them if they became his mandatorys and when Gerald became his mando he decided he couldnt make weight anymore and moved to another division.
McCallum approached him and he turned it down. Eubank admits himslef that he wanted nothing to do with either Nunn or Toney

Benn back then was nowhere near the level of a R.Johnson, McCallum or Toney

How on earth are you being hypothetical when you are talking about a period of boxing you know nothing about? How can you miss someone if you dont even share the same division?

The Benn that Eubank beat at mw was not ther same Benn who he fought at smw. The fact that he stopped Benn at mw and could only scrape a dubious draw later on should tell you that.

As for Toney and McClellan lol you clearly dont know the history between them and you really need to work on your timelines

Who conveniatealy decided he couldn't make weight when McClellan started to knock on the door. Take a look at the guys he was fighting at mw: Dan Sherry and part time male models

McClellan also knew that Belt was was worthless which is why he vacated it with the writer of the Guardian calling the belt cardboard

None of those guys where on the same level as Toney, McCallum or Reggie Johnson

McCallum had blasted Watson out in a mismatch and beat Collins on points
Malinga was a fringe contender on the same level as Thornton and Tiberi
Wharton was euro level
Collins got outboxed by Reggie Johnson
Holmes was over the hill and went something like 1-3 in his last four fights

????
Toney had already beat Nunn at mw in fact him and Nunn became friends and used to spar which each other after wards

Benn and Eubank wanted nothing to do with him. Eubank even admits this

Liles? When could that fight of got made. After he beat Littles he signed on to fight Nunn. Around that time Toney had signed on to fight Jones and then would move up to lhw

Cordoba? And when could that fight of got made?

Jones called out Eubank at smw, but Eubank wasnt interested. Eubank only became interested when the taxman was on his case, by that time it was too late because he was coming off back to back losses to Collins. Who wasnt reallymuch better than malinga

Liles? Topic for another day

Benn. Dealt with this in another thread

Rocchigiani? When could that fight of got made?