Better Victory? Frazier over Ali or LaMotta over Robinson? Why?

I'd give it to Frazier. As noteworthy as LaMotta's win was, he still had something like a 15 or so pound weight advantage, which would be considered almost absurd against a WW if not for the fact that the WW happens to be Robinson. The FOTC was a much bigger and more meaningful fight with more on the line, also.

 

It's tough. Robinson was just going on a tear. He was outweighed by about 15 pounds, but Ali was coming off a 3+ year layoff. They're very close. After LaMotta beat him Robinson went on another strong streak so I think that tells a bit about it. I've leaned on Frazier on this issue before so It's real close. But I think I might say slightly for LaMotta. Robinson beat LaMotta in the rematches within the next two years and then went unbeaten till 51 against Turpin. That was another 8 or so years.

Tough one to call. The fact that Frazier I think is a better fighter respectively at their weightclasses, and the fact that SRR was probably in the prime of his career and is the GOAT while Ali was off 4 years... yeah I just slightly go with the bull. And he won so convincingly. Yet in the next year SRR was beating LaMotta with a 10-12 pound disadvantage, still. Lastly, SRR won the first bout between them.

Isn't Tunney's win over Greb equally comparable?

Maybe I'll break it down like this.

Better Victory: Frazier
Better Performance: LaMotta

And yes, I know it's not a filmed performance.

*Edit* I almost forgot. Robinson beat LaMotta 3 weeks after the fight. And convincingly so it shows he was capable of beating Jake. Maybe Jake was drained at such a quick return fight?

 

To LaMotta-Robinson? Greb was already well-established at 175, much moreso than Robby 160 at that time, and held a version of the title. Plus Tunney didn't always have such a big weight advantage.

He'd also beaten LaMotta a few months before that fight. Which is another angle to consider: it took LaMotta two fights in order to figure out Ray, but Frazier only needed one for Ali.

 

It should be remembered that Robby had moved up from lightweight not too long before beginning his series with LaMotta. At the time of their first few fights, he really was still only a natural jr. WW. That he weighed 2-3 pounds under the welter limit for fights at MW indicate he was not even a full fledged welter yet.

 

LaMotta must've been a chump, along with the rest.

After that defeat he was undefeated for 8 years.

Ali lost again after FOTC in 73 against Norton.

Ali was also arguably better in 72-74 than in 71 due to rust.

Just Devil's Advocate. Like I said maybe the better victory is Frazier, but the performance goes on the side of Jake. How many times does he beat a SRR prime versus prime? 1 maybe 2 out of 10? Even with that 10-12 lb advantage. Prime versus prime with Ali vs Frazier is like a 6-4/5-5/7-3 type series. It's just much more competed.

Although, LaMotta probably won that controversial 3rd or 4th fight with Robinson. It was very close, a SD which had Sugar saying it was his toughest fight with Jake.

 

How many MWs of the 40s could win one fight in five against SRR at WW?

I think Burley, Zale, Cerdan, and Holman Williams for sure.

Maybe Eddie Booker. Lloyd Marshall if you count him as a MW and not a LH.

 

I go with this. Frazier-Ali for me.

 

Frazier's win, for the simple fact that it was a 15 round championship fight.

 

It may have been bigger for LaMotta though because at that time he was not yet a very highly regarded fighter although he had gone on a good streak of wins after their first fight when LaMotta was not even top 10 I believe. It was a huge upset and as a result there were calls to stop boxers from competing against much bigger opponents, although Robinson was able to deal with the size disadvantage in rematches.

Ali was Ali but Frazier too was very highly regarded and many were picking him to win. Few gave LaMotta a chance against a man that had already beaten him.

So I'd say that at the time it was bigger for LaMotta because it catapulted him from being largely unknown to being the number 1 ranked middleweight contender in the world. Frazier simply legitimized his claim as the best heavyweight in the world.

However with the Frazier-Ali I fight having everything on the line from undefeated records to the heavyweight title as well as reputation and pride, and also being possibly the most publicized fight ever, I'd say that Frazier's win was better overall.

 

Pretty much how I see it.

 

Boxed Ears, you ignorant slut....the Frazier victory is bettter. It's close but a clear decision for me.