Better win: Frazier over Ali or Duran over SRL?

I think frazier always beats ali but it still don't make the victory as impressive as duran's over leonard.

 

That's also true. But then again, I was comparing Frazier '71 against 60's Cassius Clay. So we know for sure he would have been able to go 15 rounds against Ali. On the other hand, 60's version of Clay had a weaker chin, and even though he was a better dancer, I think he was also more likely to be caught off-balance, especially by the dangerous left hook of Joe.

 

Compare Ali-Bonavena and Ali-Chuvalo and then tell me Ali was less equipped to go 15 in 1966 than in 1971. I dare you.

 

And you base this on what? All the new skills and abilities Ali aquired while sitting on his ass for 3,5 half years? The magnificient display against Bonavena?

There is a reason why Frazier was the betting favourite and the boxing experts' favourite before the fight. They all knew Ali wasn't what he once had been. There's footage of Cus D'Amato watching him in training during his comeback and saying as much and Angelo Dundee agreeing.

Please, get off Frazier's dick for a while. Just admit that his greatest victory was against someone who had passed his very best. The end and the short of it.

 

Where does this myth that Ali in the sixties had a weaker chin than in the seventies spring from ?? It's just that in his younger days,his ability to take a punch was less tested than it was later on. A fighter in his twenties does n't suddenly GROW a tough chin later on.............!!!!!

Ali's great attribute of taking punishment was always with him,from start to finish. The Sonny Banks and Henry Cooper knockdowns could have happened to him at anytime,or indeed to any other fighter.

 

You're contradicting yourself! Clay's chin couldn't have been that great since it wasn't even tested that much in the 60's, like you already said.

Ok, you're right. But that version of Joe Frazier would have KO'd Cassius Clay in the 60's.

 

His ABILITY to take a punch was already there. THAT'S what I was implying.

 

Again: Tell me how Ali would have improved physically by sitting on his ass for 3.5 years? And how did that show in his fight just prior to FOTC, the one with Bonavena?

 

I'm not saying he improved physically after the 3 years break, and I haven't got the chance to watch his fight against Bonavena, yet. To make myself clear, I don't value him that high as a boxer based on his physical abilities. Not saying that he wasn't athletic or didn't have nice speed or anything, but I always considered him as an entertainer and not a great boxer in terms of skills and talent (in the 60's era), and I believe his greatness came more from his boxing intelligence, ability to adapt and use things in his advantage (see the ropes against Foreman and Frazier in Manilla, the holding against Frazier in their II and III, etc). I'm not a fan of him, and I strongly believe people overrate him a lot as a boxer.

 

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Well, good of you to make your agenda and lack of knowledge known.:good

But it makes for better discussions when you post from what you actually know and not from personal bias. Sadly, this is quite rare when it comes from fighters that are seen as "main stream".

The stupidity of large parts of this forum never ceases to amaze me. Fighters can be rapists, muderers, wife beaters; they can duck the most worthy opposition for years, win titles by foul and never give rematches - no problem. But God forgive if they have media friendly personalities and become main stream.... That mark of shame never goes away and can never be forgiven.:!:

What a bunch of pimple popping, Kate Perry-picture masturbating morans I waste my time arguing with here. Guess the joke is on me, really.

 

Lets be honest here now, any version of ali would have had nightmares with joe. He certainly was alis kryptonite. Joe was one hell of a fighter, and an all time great. Like ali said if he could have any man by his side in a battle it would be joe. They had great respect and love for each other make no mistake about it!

 

Your sentiments are similar to mine,Bokaj. How dare any fighter have the temerity to be mainstream !!!

 

That goes beyond boxing, and I tried to stay on topic to talk about Cassius Clay in the ring. Me personally, I can't stand hypocrisy. So I might be able to accept main stream, but I can't accept someone who's being a clown both inside and outside the ring.

 

IMO Leonard was at his best against Duran........I not sure if I can say this about that version of Ali........so, IMO is Duran vs SRL....