Better win: Frazier over Ali or Duran over SRL?

Duran's victory was bigger. Roberto was out of his natural weight class, was a slight underdog, and facing a guy who was indisputably in his prime.

 

Duran over Leonard was better based on Ray was age 24, bigger and the betting favorite to beat Roberto in Canada......

MR.BILL:good

 

There`s too much to correct here but I`ll run thru it quickly....

Doesn`t matter what Ali says tbh, I have eyes in my head & have seen almost all of his fights in the 60s & 70s.... his hand speed only slowed a notch after his lay-off, he more or less retained his quick hands for his entire career.

His legs looked OK vs Quarry because the fight lasted less than 3 complete rounds... his legs looked like absolute **** in his next fight vs Bonavena, weird eh.

WTF has his `resume` got to do with how his movements looked in the 60s & 70s ?

Your completely delusional if you think a 1964-67 version of Ali has no chance of going 15 rounds vs Frazier, that version of Ali does far better than the one in 1971 win or lose.... Frazier done the majority of his scoring when he had Ali trapped on the ropes or in the corner.

Ali done the majority of his scoring when he was on the move & jabbing in the centre of the ring, it was Ali`s lack of mobility that saw him trapped repeatedly, he was a much more mobile boxer before the lay-off, Frazier wouldn`t have anywhere near as much success cutting off the ring on him, this is basic common sense, I suggest you watch a few Ali fights from the 64-67 period because it really sounds like you haven`t seen the guy fight in that period tbh.

 

Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds ?

Your talking about the same guy here, just because he took less shots in the 60s doesn`t mean he grew a chin during his lay-off before entering the 70s... honestly, this is just plain ******ation.

 

I strongly believe you have mental health issues.

 

Then stop talking ****, your opinion is void in this thread now.

 

Your bias against Ali is as clear as day, it just discredits your already weak & flawed arguments.

 

Dont forget too that during his suspension ali didnt box or train at all, he just got fat. Just proves how great he really was. 3 years is a hell of a longtime to have off, especially in the fight game

 

Exactly. Dempsey and Tyson for example was always clear about returning, they were never mentally out of the game so to speak. One can assume that they kept themselves in some sort of preparation (Tyson trained a lot in prison for one thing) for their eventual return.

Yet no one would suggest that they were as good after their inactivity as before it.

Leonard, on the other hand, was very much in his physical prime, while Duran may have passed his physical peak a bit. Duran had a sizeable advantage in experience, though, but Leonard's physical advantages (size, speed and youth) were probably even bigger. And that's why he was the favourite going in.

 

Ali, Dundee, Pachecko plus Patterson and Chuvalo (who faced him both before and after his exile) says that Ali was a faster and overall better fighter before the lay-off. You could also add Cosell and Cus D'Amato to tthat list, as well as anyone who followed Ali and boxing back then really.

Both Ali and Quarry have said that Ali had started to tire in the 3rd.

 

I watched enough of his fights, I've seen interviews and I've read enough about him to understand that I don't like him as a human being and I don't believe he was that great as a boxer. I didn't know that I'm allowed to have an opinion, without being considered ******ed or accused of having mental health issues, only if I choose to dick-ride him.

 

Funny how often those correlate when it comes to Ali.

SRR and, especially, Monzon seem to have been absolute scumbags. LaMotta too. In the true sense of the word. But that doesn't seem to influence how they are rated as fighters. And it shouldn't.

 

My view on him as a boxer and my view on him as a human being are two different things. The fact that I don't consider him that great as you do is not based on how I perceive him outside the ring.

 

To add onto your points, it speaks for itself that the rematch shows Ali turn back the clock a bit in terms of his quick-footed ring generalship, which saw him a clear victory and the easiest fight of the 3 for him (not that it wasn't competitive or fun to watch in itself.)

 

But of course.