Better win: Schmeling w Louis or Frazier w Ali?

Schmeling over Louis. Ali was past his prime when he lost to Frazier.

 

Schmeling over Louis.

 

Excellent points .. as far as your initial question .. I like Schmeling over Louis ... huge upset ...

 

Nobody, not even Ali, really thought he beat Frazier in FOTC.

Not only was Frazier's win better IMO.

It's arguably the greatest win the history of the sport.

 

Got to be Smokin' Joe's win. As others have mentioned, Joe got the win in the biggest fight ever.

 

Schmeling KO12 Louis

Clearly better.

 

Frazier over Ali. it was the big event and superhyped like nobody's business. not to mention there was a championship at stake. Ali claimed he was the true champ but Joe proved he wasn't

 

I guess it comes down to how much you think Louis improved after the first Schmeling fight, and how much you think Ali had gone back by the FOTC.

 

Ali didn't look good against Bonavena. He'd had that long layoff too. He was a slight underdog against Frazier, with good reason.

 

I would say it depends on how you rate them at their bests too.

There's no logic in rating Frazier-Ali above Schmeling-Louis unless you happen to consider Ali to be A LOT greater/better than Louis.

 

No. I'm sorry. Ali did, or at least claimed he did. He came to the University of Minnesota a week or so after the fight. Frazier was in the hospital, I remember, and Ali really dwelt on that. His own facial swelling had gone down and he looked good.

I was in the room with him while he argued that he had won, and he certainly seemed to be on the level.

 

Very good question. It's tough.

I see this: Ali was a seasoned undefeated champion -having had a very dominant reign and acknowledged as an all-time great, while Louis was not yet a champion.

Physically, Louis perhaps never looked better than against Max Baer. But we know that champions are made primarily of what's inside, and Louis against Schmeling was still relatively green, reckless, not fully rounded -certainly not at the all-around level of the great champion he would mature into.

 

Yes but what about Frazier and Schmeling?
Frazier was also undefeated and viewed as at his absolute peak.
Schmeling was considered faded with his best days behind him being led to the slaughter as were the previous two lineal champions Louis destroyed in Carnera and Baer.

Then add into the equation - how each loser fared after the contest Ali would be defeated by Norton within two years while Louis wouldn't lose for some 15 years after the fact.

Also factor in the Ali had looked vulnerable against Bonsvena in his match prior to Frazier while Louis looked like an absolute peak destroyer.
I think it's clearly Max with the better win although the fight of the century was a bigger event.

 

Yes, but, on the other hand, Schmeling "had seen something", had a honed plan coming into the fight, and Louis was blindsided by his own fooling around. Incredibly - and, of course, in hindsight - he was really a lamb going to the slaughter.

Incidentally, the argument could be made that Frazier was already breaking down physically by FOTC, though he was undeniably a splendid specimen that night.

I just see Ali's scalp as more impressive than Louis' at these points.

Louis was a youthful blunderer that night against Max. Ali was a 9-defense undefeated champion, with two big wins against top opposition behind him on the comeback trail, supremely confident on his way to coronation anew, and shockingly got his ass handed to him.

But kudos to ole' Schmeling. I have absolutely no quarrel with those who pick his amazing feat.