Between Marciano and Liston's resume...

Louis, Walcott & Charles are certainly better names, and IMHO are also better quality even at their respective stages.

 

IMHO?
Louis is a non-issue.
Charles's GREAT legacy was built on success at smaller weights.
Jersey Joe, although long in the tooth was always a tough out.
Your Liston 'trilogy' doesn't really show his dominance.
Floyd fought light...and stupid. (not that he could ever defeat Sonny in prime)
From 58-61 Sonny mowed down everyone.
I'll continue to go on record as saying Sonny would have been a BAD fight for the Rock pvp.

 

It's very close...Here is how I would rate the quality of opponents


1. Patterson I - Liston
2. Patterson II- Liston
3. Walcott I- Marciano
4. Charles I- Marciano
5. Moore- Marciano
6. Folley- Liston
7. Machen- Liston
8. Williams I- Marciano
9. Williams II- Marciano
10. Louis- Marciano

6-4 in favor of Marciano, but Liston has the 2 best victories

 

Folley and Machen were Grade A top rated very good fighters in their prime

 

Williams
Folley
Patterson (yes I only substituted one but add Patterson/Williams's second, Machen, well...he only could fight who he could fight, to be fair Rock was in the same boat)

I'm not denying the Rock's atg status.
How about the LaStarza scraps?
There is the ONE judge in Rock's history that scored him
losing in that first fight with Roland. Always thought LaStarza was a slick, rather lean, boxer/puncher that could have held his own in any era. (Jimmy Young/Roland LaStarza anyone?)

IMHO, I just don't see Marciano beating Liston in a pvp scrap. If someone disagrees, I can respect and understand that.

 

Marciano fought old men, but they were the only ones around for him to fight.
He fought all comers.

If a Liston- Marciano fight could really happen, I would probably favor Liston but not by much.

 

The point is that Liston's resume went deeper. Unless you believe the LaStarza hype nonsense (an argument wholly invented to prop the legacy of Marciano), Rock's resume is pretty thin.

Anyone trying to make one of these guys lightyears better than the other is a fool. They are two fighters whose different circumstances formed different careers, and the factors which led to these differences were largely beyond their control (sure, Sonny could have walked the straight and narrow and avoided prison)...

 

:yikes

 

The fighters to beat in marcianos era:


1. WALCOTT
2. CHARLES
3. MOORE

MARCIANO 5-0



The best fighters to beat in Listons era

1. PATTERSON
2. JOHANSSON
3. CLAY.

LISTON 2-2

 

I can always phrase a question to win my argument.

But winning an argument has little to do with reality.

 

Come on, Marciano beat-

Louis, Walcott x2, Charles x2, and Moore. IMHO, Walcott (at least the 1st fight) and Moore were as good as ever vs. Marciano. Louis was still decent but definately not prime. Charles was past prime but was well prepared and really rose to the occasion vs. Marciano x2. All good wins.

Cleveland Williams ****ing sucked! Liston's wins over Folley and Machen are more impressive than 2 wins over Williams. With that said, Marciano's wins over the above mentioned fighters are more impressive than Liston's entire career.

I'm not taking anything away from Liston, he was great, but I think he gets overrated around here.

 

He sucked? he had massive power and cat like speed. A rare blend of combination.

How so? Williams drew with machen, in a fight most thought Williams won. He is also the only man to knockout Ernie Terrell, and in my opinion went 2-0 in his fights with terrell(I scored the rematch for Williams). Terrell went on to become WBA champion. He also dominated 6'4 210lb monsters like Nino Valdes and Mike Dejohn.