Between Marciano and Liston's resume...

Nobody thought williams beat machen, nobody cared one way or the other. It was a draw in williams's home town, just another close fight that meant as much as the folley-machen draw or the cobb v dokes draw or any other heavyweight draw. Scott ledoux drew with ken Norton AND leon spinks and nobody cares about him!

All that can be said of that willaims-machen draw was that it was the best the big cat ever did against a fighter who was rated since his win over terrel was not. As it turned out terrels loss to wiliams was the turning point of ernies career. Terrel was still at the point of his career where he was losing SD's each year and williams was the first remotly famous opponent he had met. Ernie (no great fighter himself) would prove to be a better heavyweight than williams ever was because he beat a lot more fighters who were better than anyone big cat williams ever beat - and he beat williams back anyway.

Liston beat the best fighters around on the way up but nose dived when it counted. Patterson not putting up much effort made Liston go soft over two years having looked great in 1960. The 6'4'' monster Liston beat (valdes) was on the skids and losing to half decent heavyweights as was dejohn. Liston himself was the first bodybuilder who could fight. Before then there always were superheavyweights who could win when they outweighed lesser men but never made the grade when it counted or could beat fighters of their own size. Liston was better than that but lets not get carried away.