BHop won't do this, BHop won't do that - but how will Pavlik deal with the old fox?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by BigBone, Sep 20, 2008.


  1. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    All I hear is this: Pavlik is a huge physical force, a force Hopkins has to deal with. But how? His reflexes are not the same anymore. Pavlik has good hand speed and an excellent jab setting up combos with strong shots not slaps. How will Hopkins spoil that? Pavlik has a huge advantage in stamina and energy level. How will Hopkins deal with it at 43, after barely making through the 12 vs. Calzaghe. etc. etc.

    These are logical questions, dear ESB readers. But you are only looking at one half. Remember all the questions regarding the Calzaghe fight, how Nard will handle 1000+ punches, Joe’s speed advantage, the different angles etc.? Well, Nard did pretty well and made it very close. And one thing is sure: despite Joe was the winner (on my card comfortably), the fight went in Hopkins' way and despite losing, he's the one to be remembered for his performance at 43, not Calzaghe, because the Joe that beat Kessler wasn't there... guess why?



    Do you want to make the same mistake again or are you ready to deal with other interesting questions, regarding Kelly this time?

    -How will Pavlik deal with the new weight-class, a weight Hopkins already adjusted to and looked 190+ vs. Calzaghe?
    -How will Pavlik deal with a physically stronger man who won't back up like ALL FIGHTERS inlc. Taylor and Miranda did vs. Kelly?
    -What will Pavlik do if Hopkins takes away his jab - the punch sets everything up? Hopkins is a master slipping it and countering the follow-up and Kelly depends on the jab.
    -How will Pavlik handle those sneaky inside and off-balance shots that put Tarver and Calzaghe down and won the fight vs. Winky in the later rounds? Remember: in the 2nd fight vs. Pavlik Taylor still landed half of his no-so-tricky power shots and the numbers were 60% in the first fight. That’s stunningly high. Hopkins has an iron chin and he is very hard to hit clean – do you think the workrate alone will be enough? Don’t you think Hopkins will cut the stats down badly? What will Pavlik do about that?

    -How will Pavlik break through the defense gave the jab-master Winky, the huge Tarver and the slick brawler Calzaghe problems? On one hand you are getting hit with well-timed bombs and counters, and on the other hand it’s very hard to his your opponent – especially when you can't create an opening with your jab. What then?


    IMO Hopkins beat Taylor in 2 very close fights (or a draw at most in the 1st) and lost to Calzaghe by a couple of points in another close one. IMO Calzaghe's victory wasn't just a stamina issue (Nard was always good in the championship rounds, even 40+, vs Tarver and Winky) - Joe ADAPTS perfectly to the opponent's style and he has the ability to take away the dangerous punches (Hopkins’ right hand, Kessler’s uppercut, everything Lacy threw). He just did that vs. Hopkins and IMO in the end, that (70%) and the stamina (30%) made the difference on the scorecards. I also think Joe's stamina is better than Pavlik’s and I doubt Kelly will able to take away those awkward shots Hopkins times perfectly. Again: Pavlik is wide open for counters, Taylor came close winning the 2nd fight and IMO he didn't lose because he wasn't busy enough but because he couldn't take the jab away, cut down the work rate of Kelly and be even better on the defense. Hopkins is much better in those areas than Jermain.




    So. There are several other threads about the legitimate difficulties Hopkins will have to deal with. But here, please share your opinion on the difficulties Hopkins will offer and how do think Pavlik will answer to those.
     
  2. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    It won't be easy but because of styles, he'll have it easier than Calzaghe did, I think. Hopkins won't get away with hustling Pavlik too much in a dirty way because Pavlik is supposed to be the future of American boxing. He'll get some protection, I think. Pavlik has more power than Calzaghe too, and he will punch straighter, so close up, Hopkins won't have the same advantage. Good fight though, until Hopkins gasses and the nonsense starts.
     
  3. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    Pavlik will lose to the smarter, craftier, more skilled, and more versatile fighter.

    I have a question though, how do you know that Hopkins came in 190+ for the Calzaghe fight?
     
  4. thewoo

    thewoo Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    THis fight is already won for pavlik. At this age Bhop is completly incapable of throwing more than 10 punches per round and he keeps insisiting that fights be gvien to him based on his defense. The judges are just not going to give the fight to a guy that is not throwing and is simply grabbing and ducking and avoiding any confrontation.

    The only way that I can see hopkins winning this fight is by KO. I can imagine him and landing that sneaky right hand and hurting Pavlik badly otherwise, he will grab, turn, duck and slip[ punches while landing 1 or 2 punches per round and cry about the decision at the end.
     
  5. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well, I just feel it. Remember Calzaghe was supposed to be the bigger man but all he did was to dehydrate less on Friday and came in pretty much at the same weight Saturday night as usual. And Hopkins looked huge compared to him, he looked like a CW. If I remember correctly Bernard refused to tell his weight for HBO, I guess he didn't want the public to know how heavy he was.

    He just looked huge, even the clean punches that Calzaghe landed didn't seem to have an effect on his body (unlike on Lacy's) and he was seemingly the much stronger man physically... Mackie Shilstone's program was to create a huge physical force with as much speed and stamina as possible. And Hopkins definitely looked huge...
     
  6. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    I agree, although I'd be very surprised if he KOed Pavlik. 2 KD's I can see though.
     
  7. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    Excellent post.

    All the things you mentioned are logical points, and Hopkins is more than smart enough to put those into action.

    I think he's got one more great win in him. This will be it.

    People have written him off before, Trinidad, Tarver etc.
     
  8. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

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    You are right,everybody is writing Hopkins off.Pavlik won't support the weight,he hasn't seen anybody as crafty and dirty as Hopkins,Bernard is the bigger man,he will beat Pavlik
     
  9. thewoo

    thewoo Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Leading into the Trinidad fight Hopkins had not lost in over a decade and he was 36 years old. Right now he is 46, 2-3 in his last 5 fights, and his punch out put is just too low to win any kind of a decision. There is just no way that any judge is going to give him the figbht based on just his defense which is what he wants them to do latley.

    His only chance of win is a KO and his only KO in the past 5 years was against a much much much smaller Oscar.

    If he had anything impressive left in him he would have pulled it out by now.

    Just like people wrote him off aginst Tarver they also talked him up in all his recent losses. He was supposed to be too crafty for Taylor and Calzage. Too big for Calzage who was coming up in weight. People need to realize that he just doesn't have it anymore. He reminds me of Toney a couple of years back where people kept saying that if he could just get down to 220 he would clean up the heavyweight division, Or Tyson before him when really up to the Danny Williams fight people still thought he could become champ again. Nobody can beat father time. Not even hopkins.
     
  10. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

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    Actually he is 43:D ,and if the judges don't **** it uphe can win this figth
     
  11. thewoo

    thewoo Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I meant to write 43, sorry. That seems to be the common cry from hopkins fans recently. That the judges are the ones to blame for his losses. Like it's their fault that he is only throwing a handfull of punches in every round.
     
  12. Jennifer Love Hewitt

    Jennifer Love Hewitt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hopkins will KO Pavlik.
    Hopkins is sneaky, and Pavlik is not hard to find. Pavlik's chin won't hold up if Hopkins can land a couple of good straight rights.
     
  13. r_9-Ronaldo

    r_9-Ronaldo Shinny Shadez Full Member

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    hopkins doesnt have anywhere near the speed or power of jermain taylor
     
  14. liljp361

    liljp361 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I see you know your boxing :thumbsup
     
  15. liljp361

    liljp361 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think Pavlik is unknockoutable only knockdownable..