Some people say that he had trouble with "stick and move" guys, but is this really true? Muhammad Ali is a quick mover, but spent most of their fight lying on the ropes. In the Jimmy Young fight, I think George unsuccessfully tried to pace himself and got overwhelmed. He wasn't fighting his type of fight, which was to destroy you. I think George was good at cutting the ring and could have steamrolled Jimmy, but was cautious of his stamina. Monte D. Cox wrote this in one of his articles. He makes a lot of sense. http://coxscorner.tripod.com/Foreman2.html Larry Holmes was telling Bert Sugar several years ago that George ducked him because Larry had a "stick and move" style like Ali did. I can't officially say whether slick boxers will always beat Foreman just because of the Jimmy Young fight. But then again, Foreman fought the right type of guys in his second career--guys who came forward. Was George hiding something by doing this? Basically, I'm asking opinions on if it's a fact or myth that George will always get outboxed by slick boxer-movers.
No style is ideal for someone like Foreman But, if there was ONE style that was the best at nullifying Foreman, I would agree that it would be the out boxing style. And someone who fought at Holmes level of elite ability definitely had what it takes to take out Foreman. Would have been a great great fight
Yes and no, yes it is the best way to expose his style is to slip his wide punches, use your jab and outmaneuver him. You have to be pretty good to do it and not every boxer will be able to pull it off, you are probably going to need to soak up a few punches too. But if the Young defeat was such an anomaly then why not try to avenge it and why quit boxing?
I think that Old George Foreman would pretty much be outboxed by any good mover. Young George is a tottally different proposition. I do think that stick and move is the best tactic to use against him, but dont see many who could pull it off. Ali did it, but he only did it because he had the greatest chin, heart and recovery powers of all time. Tunney was a good chance, and almost certainly beats the version that faced young who was still a decent version, but against prime Foreman, it is a tough ask. I see no one taking the punishment Ali took, so to pull it off against foreman, you basically have to do what Ali tried to and couldnt so in this sense you need to be better than Ali as a boxer. Foreman is a chance, but not much. He would cause some early troubles, but i see George suckering him into overconfidence at some stage and George will land on him and finish him off. Corbett is another chance, but again, as elusive as he was his chin you would think would have to give out sooner or later. Like with Jeffries, Fitz and others, Corbett could get overconfident and i think George would set the trap for him and finish him. I cant really think of anyone else who could have a chance at sticking and moving. Lennox or the Klits i suppose are the best chances. Strangely, Primo or Willard might be other guys to do it. And it might look very interesting if Sonny liston adopted this tactic. In fact Sonny might just be the best chance to pull it off.
Tbh, the two qualities that were most important to beating Young George were chin and stamina. If you could outlast him and survive his offense, you had a chance to make something happen. Ron Lyle, who isn't the most violent of offensive fighters, nearly made that happen coming straight into George and going punch for punch with him. I agree that the Young fight was an anomaly, and a fight George should have won, and would have won just a couple years earlier. He didn't try to avenge it because his mindset shattered, he had a major life revelation, and wanted to do something else. Being scared had nothing to do with it, as anyone close to Foreman and Foreman himself will attest.
Foreman was very good at cutting off the ring even against slick boxers, so while his offense was somewhat limited in style, he could pressure very well. His chin, pressure and power were his biggest attributes.
It wasn't that simple. Check out Foreman-Denis. Dino was a 6'3" undefeated cutie who could take a punch while somewhat lacking in the power department himself. He tried sticking and running, but George tracked him down and got him to engage in short order. Commenting from ringside, Jerry Quarry was baffled as to why Denis had gone stationary, but it's difficult for a heavyweight of any size to sustain movement like that. Frazier also tried movement in his rematch with George, yet failed to win any of the completed four rounds. Ali and Young were two of the most durable heavyweights who ever lived, on top of their defensive proficiency. Jimmy had underrated power, while Muhammad was at his hardest punching in Kinshasa. Norton also tried a boxing retreat, but it only got him through a single round. A case can be made that Ken's punch resistance was inferior to that of Denis. (Dino did last longer against both Foreman and Cooney, and came to Foreman after beating LeDoux, who later dropped Ken twice in stealing a hometown draw.) Carnera and Willard had the combination of height, reach, mobility and stamina to make things interesting by boxing outside of George's preferred mid range. Havana Jess did use defensive tactics against the ropes to outlast Johnson, and can be seen slipping and countering Moran off the ropes as well. Dempsey wasn't sure he'd be able to last 12 rounds in Toldeo after his early torrid pace. Big Jess may be the best underdog candidate of any historic champion to pull a massive upset of George. Walcott had the unpredictable shiftiness to drive most anybody nuts. Jerry Quarry possessed a peculiar combination of slip and counter qualities (as seen against Spencer) which could have made life very miserable for Foreman, along with the 12 round stamina he displayed against Spencer, Mathis and Lyle, and sufficient late round power to hurt George. Foreman would have been at a dreadful speed and quickness deficit with JQ, who was just as comfortable at mid range. George was who he was, and would not have been able to resist tailing Jerry into the ropes and corners. Although Liston showed against Scrap Iron that he could box in retreat, I think Sonny would stand his ground with George and force him on the back foot behind that ramrod jab, an experience Foreman would find more exhausting than Kinshasa and San Juan put together. The big guy would thus be too far away to make much use of either his physical strength or roundhouse power. When he did connect, Liston could withstand it. Louis would have been between Foreman's arms with Joe's superior command of the center line and much shorter, much faster punches. Splitting George's guard, I think Louis would have ripped him apart. Backing him up meant getting under him like Godoy did, not something the 6'4" Foreman was going to succeed at. Summing up, no. George would not always be beaten by slick moving boxers. But Holmes was an ATG who won 20 title fights. Jeffries was much faster, had ridiculous stamina, much better defense, and may well have been able to force Foreman into retreat. If he could do this, he'd knock George out. Foreman had serious deficits in speed, stamina and defense. Where he wasn't lacking was in ring cutting skill. But when younger, he could actually be made to give ground himself, and there were instances where Peralta, Chuvalo and even Ted Gullick succeeded in getting him to move back. During his second career, I don't see him beating Denis when Morrison was able to outmaneuver him. Still, Cooney tried the same tactic, but failed. So during both the 1970s and 1990s, attempts were made to
Lewis stands the best chance against a prime young Foreman in my opinion. Holmes and Vitali is pick 'em... I'm really not sure who wins between those guys a prime big George.
Lewis stands the best chance against a prime young Foreman in my opinion, and I favour him to pick Foreman apart and stop him in the mid-late rounds. Holmes and Vitali is pick 'em... I'm really not sure who wins between those guys and a prime big George.
i can think of many skilled individuals , tht may give george hell based , on movement. . Machen, Tunney, Ali, Holmes, Young , Tillis , Page ,etc .
..stevie g has it right..ali said george was very good at at side stepping and cutting off the ring. he said he found every time he took two side steps george took one and was right in front of him. he said that's why he went to the ropes.