Bigger one punch power? Shavers vs Tyson

Just debunking your theory, which in this case was miles off.

 

Please explain. Tyson took out more and better fighters with one punch KO's than did Shavers. Shavers can hang his hat on only Ellis in that regard. The Norton KO was an accumulation of headshots over the final 30 seconds.

 

Botha wasn't better than Ellis.

 

Like I asked resnick, do you rate Shannon Briggs as a puncher? It sounds like you should given the direction your argument is taking.

What does? Under what criteria are we measuring both fighters' power?

 

Why is it so hard for you to believe that Shavers was the hardest hitter in history of heavyweights? Ali and Holmes both corroborated it. Ali fought Foreman, Frazier, and Liston and still said Shavers hit harder. Holmes fought Tyson too so that should automatically be the end of the debate right there. One punch ko's and all that other **** is pointless. The people who were actually hit by Shavers and Tyson have better point of view and more valued opinion on this subject vs anybody who every watches there fights. You can watch Shavers and Tyson fights all day but it still won't give you a better insight on what their power felt like.

The fact that Shavers didn't do much at the very top level of the heavyweight division go's to prove power isn't everything.

 

Your fixated on one strain of logic because you're trying to win an argument for the sake of your ego, and you're missing the obvious point.

If you want to learn more about the abilities of a boxer, seeing 100% of their fights, as opposed to 15% of their fights, will help you learn more about that fighter, no?

So seeing Briggs film career is ****ing worthless as it pertains to learning about the extent of Shavers abilities.

 

Rahman 1 punch KO'd a better fighter than Tyson ever has. Is he the strongest of the three?

No, that's why you can't ignore other variables of the argument. Yours will inevitably fall apart.

Tyson was a much better fighter than Shavers, and could set up better KO opportunities on better fighters. That doesn't mean we can just erase the unanimous peer testimony of Shavers power.

 

Why don't we use Holmes as a control?

We can compare Shavers KD with Tysons first KD.
Tyson finished the fight because he's Tyson, and Holmes was older.

But Shavers KD clearly hit Holmes harder, and effected him worse than Tysons knockdown.
Just have a look.

https://streamable.com/yv6w
https://streamable.com/e922

Shavers clearly punches harder. Prime Holmes was a hair away from losing to Shavers.

 

Tyson has more one punch knockouts than either man put together. Brilliant logic.

Then either the fighter was Oliver McCall or the punch wasn't that hard in the first place.

Raw power is meaningless if it can't translate into tangible results.

Young was incredibly slippery and Shavers caught him at the beginning of his career when he was still pretty green. He wasn't known for being particularly iron chinned so far as I know. It actually says more about Shavers's ability to hit a moving target that he was able to stop Young than it does about his punching power.

 

Well obviously. But in lieu of that we have to go by their in-ring performances and where possible try to find points of relation where we can more accurately gauge the matter. Tyson routinely knocked fighters on their ass and had them drooling into their shorts with only a couple of shots. Shavers routinely failed to stop anyone worth a damn that wasn't already deficient in the chin department.

Was he tougher though? That's what the issue seems to be here.

 

I've already explained ad nauseam why I don't believe Shavers was the hardest puncher in history. If you want a breakdown just search through my older posts. I've also explained why I don't hold much credence in fighter testimonies regarding punching power, but essentially it boils down to the fact that a human isn't an objective measuring instrument, and when you're being punched in the head and brought to the brink of unconsciousness and beyond you're not likely to remember anything with any accuracy. There's also the fact that a punch which truly turns your lights out is not likely to register in your memory the way a lesser punch that still leaves you in command of your faculties will do. In many cases it doesn't register at all.

Regarding Holmes, forgive me if I ignore what Larry has to say on the matter considering both fighters' respective performances against him.

 

I'd love to have all of Shavers's fights available on film, merely for the sake of posterity if for nothing else. But having those fights shouldn't significantly alter anyone's opinion of Shavers as a puncher unless it's something extraordinary like Tua's early knockouts.

I'm not sure where you got the impression that Briggs's fights had anything to do with Shavers's abilities. I was pointing out the logic of rating a puncher based on apparently brutal knockouts against sub-par opposition.

Rahman was actually a very underrated puncher. In terms of one punch power he was capable of delivering some serious damage if given the chance to load up, as the Lewis fight showed. That alone is not enough to rate him above Tyson of course. Had Tyson been given the chance to deliver a similar shot and failed to have the same effect then it becomes a legitimate debate.

Shavers was able to land his best shots on some top-notch fighters like Ali, Norton and Holmes, alongside others. He simply couldn't get the job done when he did so. That's a reflection on his power, not his delivery mechanisms.

Yes, clearly punches harder given he stopped Holmes and Tyson didn't. Wait, what? Holmes bounced straight up after Shavers knocked him down and rode out the rest of the round, despite taking a few more solid ones to the kisser. He was stopped a few seconds later, knocked clean unconscious in fact, against Tyson. But Shavers 'obviously' hit him harder and affected him worse. Yeah, alright.

Why am I even debating with you?

 

Okay and Rahman stopped Lewis, but Tyson didn't. If I were to apply your shallow logic, Rahman is stronger than Tyson case closed.


How many times do I have to say that Tyson stopped Holmes because hes a better fighter than Shavers? In one ear, out the other lol.

 

A hard punch is a hard punch lol. A fighter isn't going to forget what it felt like.