Bigger robbery: Whitaker D12 Chavez or Hearns D12 Leonard

All I know is that I can only be arsed to rewatch the Leonard-Hearns fight because Pea-Chavez was a snoozefest.

 

Whitaker was the bigger carriage of mis-justice but Hearns was badly done by too.

Sure you can score Hearns - SRL close but it should always comes out a Hearns win no matter whether narrow or not. Leonard himself has admitted as much in public on film multiple times. You will never see him saying he didn't beat Hagler.

 

We are talking about the rematch right? Not round 14 of the first fight. The rematch. June 12, 1989 I stand by that, Tommy was more exhausted than hurt. At the end of round 9 he was hurt by a left hook, but not as much hurt in round 12. Watch the round again. He was tired and Ray was landing and landing and putting his all into the round-Round 12, Tommy stupidly came out trying to knock out Ray when Emanuel told him to box, and then Ray probably about one minute into the round came back and landed a right but Hearns was not really too hurt, and Ray backed Tommy to the ropes just on pouring it on (similar to how Tommy was backing up Ray at the beginning of round 7) and he tried and tried, and even hit Tommy with a hit on the break near the end of the round-and Hearns had the energy then to land a good left to the body and ducking some of those punches.. and that was seconds before the bell rang. People should ask themselves how much energy did Leonard have left. And I seem to recall hearing Ray went to the hospital for dehydration. Hearns did not.

 

Ray had no energy at all at the end of that fight, and Tommy actually was coming back a little at the end of round 12. He was tired, I admit that, but Ray had not punching power at that point and the only punches he really landed at the end were on the break. Tommy took just on a guess 2 minutes of Ray trying to knock him out.. And what took a lot of air our of Ray was a left hook to the body by Hearns, after Ray hit him on the break. I know the fight very well. I have not watched it in years, but in 1989 I watched it almost every day for a month or two. Ray ended in the hospital is the word I had.

 

You are saying Hearns wasn't hurt in the fight yet say at the end of round 9 he was hurt by a left hook???? Which one is it?

Have you watched the actual fight? Tommy was hurt in round 5 and noway was he tired at the time. He was hurt a few times, these are the facts. Now he still deserved the W but lets not be silly about things.

 

Pea-Chavez was the bigger robbery. I had Hearns winning, but if Leonard gets 10-8 for one of the rounds in which he had Hearns hurt, it gets mighty close. But where on earth you are going to find six rounds for Chavez is beyond me.

 

Prob Pea. But Chavez had no business fighting at 147. Fight was at the wrong weight and three years too late.

 

Both robbed in the fight s but by a whisker I'd pick PW v JCC.

 

Whitaker draw with Chavez was BS. Whitaker won cleanly and even hurt Chavez.

 

Not trying to take anything away from Sweet Pea HOF achievements but it was well known that he waited for Chavez to age. In the late 80's Chavez who feared no fighter stated several times he wanted to face Sweet Pea. Lou Duva told The Ring that they did not want a fight against Chavez.

 

Chavez vs. Whitaker was the far greater robbery, and this is coming from a Chavez fan. Leonard-Hearns II was competitive and close. Whitaker outboxed him clearly, and was even winning rounds more clearly as the fight progressed.

 

Have I watched the fight? This is why we have opinions, not everyone's is the same. I don't think there is another fight I have seen more in one year than that one in 1989. This might be a fight I watched the most ever. I love watching fights over and over again. I can memorize the moves and study them, especially that era. Today I don't study the fight as much. I might watch them once or a couple of times, but not like then. Every day that summer I watched the fight after I bought those videos this is the truth- a box set came out with both Leonard/Hearns fights. although I don't like how they put Gil Clancy and Tim Ryan doing commentary 8 years after acting like they were in 1981so they could sell it as a set-they did not do the original 81 fight yet they acted like they were commentating the action. Although Tim Ryan said between rounds, this is how the round was scored-so that gave it away. I know this fight in my head both HBO and PPV, and PPV is better with Marvin.

What did you not understand. I know I said he was not that hurt in that fight which means he was indeed hurt. He was hurt just not significantly and Tommy lasting to the last bell demonstrates this.. Saying not that hurt means he was not hurt ( in my mind which is the only one I can speak from) to the point in other fights where he get's stopped but it comes under the he was hurt meaning. Kinchen hurt him significantly. Hagler did. Barkley did obviously more with one punch than Ray did in that 1989 fight. Due to size or whatever, Tommy took his punch very well. Ray liked to hit on the breaks like with Lalonde.. Ray in the first fight hurt him more than in 1989 that is for sure. . If I said he was hurt at the end of round 9 that would obviously encompass the fight which comes under the comment not that hurt -also. Thomas was hurt at the end of round 9 In round 5 everyone thought he was hurt, but to me is questionable rather stunned a little. He was off balance and fell back into the ropes and Ray poured it on again and knocked from area to area and Tommy had to regroup and start hitting Ray to the body and landing some nice right hands and Tommy was not really too hurt-not in my mind if anything more stunned by when Ray backed him up and hit him than the initial punch in round 5,, I think near 1:45 of the round , similar to how Tommy poured it on at the beginning of round 7, yet Ray was hurt there with a left hand and Tommy poured it on and backed up Ray and worked him over, but to Ray's credit he survived it.. , In that fight Ray did not really hurt Tommy too badly. If he had he would have stopped him probably. Ray did not have the power he thought he had in that fight. It is easy to see when Hearns was hurt in fights.. Against Roldan there were times Roldan hurt Hearns and the announcers didn't even notice which is when you probably say someone is hurt. I watch the fights and figure it out myself. There is a difference between hurt and tired and backing up. And with Hearns if he was really hurt it would have been a different story in that round 12. It is about knowing Hearns and seeing how he reacts to be hurt or just tired. With Tommy being tired was always something to be concerned about, but later in his career he could survive being tired.

 

It was a close fight. I think Tommy coming out in round 12 to knock out Ray was dumb, similar to how he fought dumb with Hagler. I love Tommy, but his decisions to fight instead of box hurt his career. He has himself to blame. Sometimes his decisions were not based on a good gameplan. He relied on his power too much and tried to make points by going for a knockout. He always said he wanted to put on his thinking cap with Ray, and yet another ref. not Richard Steele could have stopped it in round 12, even though I don't think he was really hurt, he took a chance when he got tired. Then he would land.

 

Both were robberies, but I have found upon rewatch that Leonard-Hearns II was an extremely entertaining battle.

Two men with pride laying it on the line.