Bigger upset at the time: Rahman-Lewis or Tarver-Jones?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, May 13, 2020.


Which was the bigger upset?

  1. Rahman over Lewis

  2. Tarver over Jones

  3. Neither was bigger

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    If that's so, I guess I've been giving serious boxing fans waaaay too much credit all these years based on the ones I happened to know and interact with. That would make sense though, since the ones I knew definitely weren't a random sample.

    Whether they considered him to be a superman or not though, he was still a fighter who hadn't been dropped in 7 years, and who'd run through a whole lot of very hard hitters, and been recognized as the best heavyweight in the world for several years.
     
  2. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Actually, with some exceptions, they're generally a very good indicator. They're not some arbitrary number.

    And if everything people are saying in this thread is true, and everyone—casuals and serious fans alike—was certain that Roy would dominate Tarver in the rematch, he should have been waaay more than a 4:1/7:2 favorite. Serious gamblers would consider that to be a very cheap price for free money. Do you have any idea how many people would have poured in money on Tarver in the Jones rematch at 20:1 odds?? It probably would have been some of the most lopsided betting activity of all time.

    The fact that enough late money came in on Tarver at 4:1 odds to force the sportsbooks to move the odds to 7:2 shows that serious people thought Tarver was a very live underdog.

    A puncher's chance is a perfectly reasonable reason to bet on a fighter at those odds, if you think it's at all plausible that he would pull it off. You don't think it makes sense to bet $5 to win $100, if you think someone has a plausible puncher's chance?
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
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  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The focus then was very much on the big marque fighters like Tyson, Holyfiled, and yes Jones.

    They were household names, and just having their name on the card made a big fight.

    Only the boxing purists gave you credit for beating a Tua, or a Rahman, or a Golotta.
     
  4. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    As I recall from the time, very few people were picking Rahman over Lennox, but quite a few fancied Tarver in the rematch, with many believing Tarver deserved the nod in their first bout.

    The nature of the early KO by Tarver was shocking, but Tarver beating Jones - not so much. Rahman beating Lennox was outright shocking.

    Rahman over Lewis for me.
     
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  5. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Lads 20 15 in favor of Jones Tarver as of now. Still somewhat close
     
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  6. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    There's seems to be a huge gulf between what the disagreeing factions think constitutes a bigger upset. It's certainly not worth the insults.

    On one hand we have bigger odds and less expectation for the fave to lose.

    On the other hand we have more noise on forums and higher profile loser = bigger upset. Perhaps the nature of the upset as well.

    There's a huge gap between the two.
     
  7. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Could be wrong but I take the Jones-Tarver crowd as arguing both—that Jones was seen as less likely to lose the Tarver rematch than Lewis was his first fight against Rahman, and that Jones’ loss made more noise on forums and in school, etc.
     
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  8. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    Yeah I can honestly see both sides. Tarver was a much more worthy adversary for Jones then Rahman appeared to be for Lewis. But for me it just goes back to how highly I thought of Jones. I rooted against Jones and had waited for that night for a very long time. So I was on cloud nine seeing him flattened. I screamed in a Jones loving friends Face after seeing his hero flattened. Probably a bit of a dick move but so be it, he’d of done the same to me on the other end.

    I actually just asked the question to a friend of mine that I’ve watched boxing with since the mid-80s, he does no Internet forums or social media he pretty much stays off grid. I simply asked him which one he thought was the larger upset, Without telling him which way I felt and he basically said everything I’ve already said in this thread and voted in favor of Jones - Tarver. Again I don’t think anyone is wrong here, and the odds would say I’m wrong, but again I guess it’s just Comes down to how highly you thought of Jones at the time versus Lewis. Seeing Lewis beaten after seeing him in tough fights before wasn’t as startling as finally seeing Jones destroyed.

    Fun debate guys.
     
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  9. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    Tarver was pfp top ten on a lot list already. Rahman was pfp nothing.
     
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  10. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    If that's the case nobody was picking Rahman. There were certainly some people picking Tarver.
     
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  11. Pugilist Specialist

    Pugilist Specialist Active Member banned Full Member

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    Tarver over Jones was much bigger upset for all the dumbasses who werent alive back then or following. I know it for a fact. Lewis was never seen as that great when he was fighting and known for a weak jaw. Roy was seen as superman and when he got iced the boxing world talked about it for months on end
     
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  12. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    I was alive back then following the sport religiously, and I can only assume you're projecting the way you felt at the time onto the masses at large. While it's true some people thought Roy was "superman" and there were also those who believed Lewis was known for having a weak jaw, those sentiments were more widely held several years before these two upsets took place, and even then, there were a considerable number of opposing view points.

    There was no consensus on either of your claims.
     
  13. Pugilist Specialist

    Pugilist Specialist Active Member banned Full Member

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    The reason is very simple . Jones was unbeaten ( not counting the DQ loss).. and no one ever imagined him being beat, let alone 1 punch kayoed.
    Lewis already was knocked out by McCall... People were stunned about Jones. With Lewis people thought, ahhh well it happened before. he was out of shape ,, he'll kayo Rahman in the rematch
     
  14. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Related question: Does anyone know what Lewis and Rahman were ranked heading into their first match?
     
  15. Curtis Lowe

    Curtis Lowe Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Tarver over Jones. HBO broadcast crew was literally giving Jones head every fight. Lampley had/has no shame, Kellerman actually talking that Jones could beat Wlad.